I hope so.He'll probably be there so you can ask him personally.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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I hope so.He'll probably be there so you can ask him personally.
I didn’t need to ask, he talked about it a lot. He talked to the head of the organization about it too. It was really important to him that he was sinless.If it was "off" did you ask him about it or ask one of the men to talk with him about the truth?
Untrue. But if one wants truth, one evaluates what others teach. I’m not his judge. But I see the fruit a teaching brings.All I see is that you evaluated a man as a liar and left him in his sin.
I didn’t know anyone who was. And it took years to figure it all out.Did you show him what real sinlessness looks like?
I would think 'hopeful' would expect so.I hope so.
Rogerg Said" The basis of my understanding is that true faith has at its core, works, yet a person's works cannot save them. Therefore, the faith that saves cannot be theirs.I didn't mean to not make it a discussion, so please feel free to reply as you feel appropriate. The reason behind my choosing of Heb. 11.1 was to demonstrate that true faith is itself, in some sense, is a substance - it is tangible -- it is not conjecture nor a formulation of the mind, but Christ Himself who indwells those saved, the result of which is demonstrated in their burgeoning and increasing trust and confidence towards Him as Saviour: as the one who rightfully alone holds that title and who saves.
Regarding Romans 4:5, I think that I understand it, but perhaps not. The basis of my understanding is that true faith has at its core, works, yet a person's works cannot save them. Therefore, the faith that saves cannot be theirs.
The only way it can be possible, is if faith is given as a gift, and so the faith that does save, must be Christ's faith because His faith alone had the works needed to please the Father. That is why, in the below verse we read that "his faith" -- Christ's faith-- is counted for righteousness, not their faith. Any faith we might manufacture cannot be righteous because we cannot produce the works necessary to make it righteous. Okay, now having said that, what am I missing re your understanding of faith?
[Rom 4:5 KJV] 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Oops, meant to include shalom.
Shalom, rthom7yes correct, but that does mean the faith has no value, the works we allow to be achieved through us are Christ's works anyway, and it means much to the Father, when we allow such works to be replicated in us, for these efforts of co-operation and partnership to God, we are rewarded. Thy good and faithful servant. Shalom my friend.
Not sure? Please explain, what does obedience mean to you? A Bible text would also be nice.Are you getting works and obedience confused?
Well said Dorothy, I learned a valuable lesson the other day about Salvation and the condition of our attitude towards Salvation. Salvation is conditionally given to us daily, as we forgive others, Jesus forgives us.We likely are coming from very different places but that can make a discussion more interesting. (What I mean is, when two people completely agree, the discussion is pretty much over.)
The example of my obedience and your attitude of prayer does not match my obedience although I can see what you are saying somewhat better. I cannot, of course, speak to your internal thinking as that is not clear to me as we have only just met and I have read too few of your pieces to be able to say anything worth saying to your attitude. (I am of the view, that is admittedly disputed by some, that when you read enough of what a person has written which comes directly out of their thinking unless they merely quote others, you get a good idea of what and how they think. People write a lot about what they think and they are angry when you say you know what they think. I have no idea what they think they are doing when they express in words their thinking other than communicating their thinking.)
Probably needs to be said that I am a woman and so the temptations in the direction of lust do not at all come from seeing a man, dressed or otherwise. Women are not tempted by visual stimulus. Jesus spoke in the scriptures to men, males in that one for a particular reason. So that example does not resinate with me, I am afraid. It would not with most women.
That being said, you are addressing the state of being tempted to sin and asking for help so as to avoid doing that sin. You essentially ask God for help in the moments of temptation, right? Seems OK to me. Not so convinced about the wording as in the "power of Jesus flowing into you" but if you can resist temptation that is the main thing, whatever you call it.
Now my instances of obedience are both refraining from and active. I can give an obvious active one that applies to all Christians. We are to forgive those who sin against us. Period. This is something I have to choose to want AND ask for help to do so. When God points out that I have not forgiven someone, I have to acknowledge this and ask for help if the offense is pretty large. So in that I too ask for his help although it is more active than refraining from. Of course, forgiving others is helped along by the warning that if I fail, God will not forgive me. So there is more than none reason to obey.
Yes Roger, when you partnership to Jesus and his power flows through you, the works achieved are your works in Christ, but one needs to be careful of your boasting and pride. Sure when we grow things in our garden, and are a helpmate to God, we cannot say, we grow the plants and make their fruit. One needs to address the humility of our works and whom takes the glory, certainly not us. In my own life in Jesus, our pride is the biggest stumbling block in any relationship. A marriage is a good example of this, we have to learn to work as one, not as two in partnership. Hope you understand this ? ShalomShalom, rthom7
Can Christ's works be achieved in/by us? Christ's work was to bring salvation. Wouldn't that then make salvation our work?
Roger
Yes Roger, when you partnership to Jesus and his power flows through you, the works achieved are your works in Christ, but one needs to be careful of your boasting and pride. Sure when we grow things in our garden, and are a helpmate to God, we cannot say, we grow the plants and make their fruit. One needs to address the humility of our works and whom takes the glory, certainly not us. In my own life in Jesus, our pride is the biggest stumbling block in any relationship. A marriage is a good example of this, we have to learn to work as one, not as two in partnership. Hope you understand this ? Shalom
There is a disconnect. There are people, not a few, who help others (doing good) because there is a need and they have compassion. There is no connection to faith. And I cannot think of a single good work the devil uses. I suppose one can say the devil uses faith when he gets people to believe strongly in a lie.
Here I disagree. The works of the law are the people in his day following the old Mosaic law with its dos and don'ts. The works of the law are not helping an old lady cross the street. That is just plain a good deed, not a work of the law and the devil is not involved unless there is more to the story that is wrong.
But who does this? I can tell you for sure and certain that atheists are not trying to obey any law and are not trying to be justified by doing so. They just do good things to help others because others need it. At least some of the time for sure.
I do not see anywhere in the Scripture there faith is Jesus means "a strong flow of power" at all. Can you provide a Scripture for this position please?
My friend, I understand your concern about the hidden nature of the Scriptures.Do you know ancient Hebrew or just parroting others? Even current Hebrew was a dead language until the last century.
I dunno, one cannot answer all things, perhaps the Father knows all things and reads the future we do not know ourselves? That doesn't remove the invitation all are invited to the wedding feast, only that the Father knows already those which are willing to come. ShalomWhy do you think the Bible informs of this?
[Jhn 6:65 KJV] 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
But the verse say that none can come to Christ, not that the Father knows in advance who will make the choice to come. I think that means it is the Father's decision/prerogative/action as to who it is that He will draw to Christ, not a person's action, and so He draws them alone. I don't see any other way to interpret it. That verse is extremely important and significant in understanding salvation.I dunno, one cannot answer all things, perhaps the Father knows all things and reads the future we do not know ourselves? That doesn't remove the invitation all are invited to the wedding feast, only that the Father knows already those which are willing to come. Shalom
Here is my Modus operandi…I have spoken to Hebrew speaking people on forums and they say there is no such thing as Ancient Hebrew anyway, so you can learn your learnings as best you see fit, and take anything you read with a grain of salt, for mockers mock all day long.
It is important to everyone who is "in Christ", as there is no sin in Him.I didn’t need to ask, he talked about it a lot. He talked to the head of the organization about it too. It was really important to him that he was sinless.
I guess it was before you were "spiritual".Untrue. But if one wants truth, one evaluates what others teach. I’m not his judge. But I see the fruit a teaching brings.
I give glory to God for your conversion.I didn’t know anyone who was. And it took years to figure it all out.
That was a kind thing to do.We are still in contact, btw. I comforted him when his daughter died in an accident.
If I remain faithful till the end, it will happen.I would think 'hopeful' would expect so.
So, in the end, it pretty much depends on you?If I remain faithful till the end, it will happen.
I will be the one judged for my actions.So, in the end, it pretty much depends on you?
(Rom 5:10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You won’t find that view reflected in the New Testament, this focus on your personal holiness as a life goal. The focus is on loving God and loving people.It is important to everyone who is "in Christ", as there is no sin in Him.
That’s pretty condescending. I doubt God feels glorified by your words.I guess it was before you were "spiritual".
As it is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
I give glory to God for your conversion.
Why?That was a kind thing to do.
Can you put he and I together?
Where is the scripture that discusses or even mentions a “flow of power?”Sorry maybe I speak too much and now I am getting proud. We all have our experiences in life and I value yours and your advice as well.
As for the meaning of Amanuah, The Jews speak this word as Emanuh, and I am not sure why, neither do they understand the root word which is "man", the Greek word for this is "manna". Manna is a food granted from heaven for Israel to eat. Hence in a poetry sense this was the bread from heaven.
Jeff Benner is a person I ran into many years back because when I study Hebrew and KJV translations I was surprised by the inconsistent translations, though the KJV is the best for our English. Hence I came to like Jeff because he says like I say, languages that are pure should have no polysemy. He also introduced me to Ancient Hebrew, a system of older letters preserved inside the Scriptures. And from these come word meanings as I posted.
For example the word "faith" is made of "aleph" "mem" "nun" "hey" Hebrew letters.
These letters are in English "A" "M" "N" and "H". Often Jews add other sounds between to make the word easier to speak.
If you look you can see "AMeN with H" so when we speak amen we are using the term faith.
Manna or man, uses three of those letters "M" "A" and "N".
Jews do not associate "hey" like Jeff Benner explains, is a picture of a person beholding another person of awesome glory.
Here is a picture I like about faith
Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
If you eat food often enough you lose its sense of wonder, and you become complacent. Inside the food is a flow of power that supports all your cells and imparts life.
The poetry parallel to this is the torah, a simile of rain, and inside the torah are teachings that also have strong flows of power in them that we are also supposed to eat.
The attitude of eating that life sustaining power depends upon the way you perceive the words of life.
When we say a prayer of blessing for the food we receive at our tables, do we really have the attitude of gratitude or do we just eat the words/food casually as if nothing unusual about it? Notice God tests us daily to see how we relate to Salvation, which is a bread from heaven, that we eat daily.
The Bible has much poetry in it, and this allows many different opinions of the word pictures we see and the parallels we gather. It also has that mystery , as you say we all never speak the same, as we are drawn into different people's experiences. Thanks for the opportunity to share. Shalom