WHY DO WE SIN?

[Hopeful]

No, the law acted like a marriage license that enforced our submission to the desires of the flesh. Like how a wife, by reason of the law of marriage, must submit to her husband's desires. But, since the law of marriage that binds a wife to her husband is only in effect while the husband is alive, she is released from having to submit to the husband's desires when he dies.

And so it is with us. The flesh who once commanded our submission to it, by force of law, can not do that anymore because he's dead. The authority of the law that makes us serve the desires of the flesh ends with the death of the flesh. And so we are now free to be in marital submission to new husband and Master, Jesus Christ, and bear His fruit.

I do see your point.
But even those not under the Mosaic Law were subject to their flesh too, before it was crucified with Christ. (with the affections and lusts, Gal 5:24)

 

[WIP]

So - no one ever committed suicide? Or wanted to but did not carry it out?
How about those who intentionally cut themselves, or are bulimic? Do they not exist?

Please square those realities with what you are trying to say with that verse.

Might be a topic for another thread but when Jesus gave the command to love others as ourselves, how does that fit here?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I love you man...

I love you, too! Brothers and sisters in the Lord are few and all are to be cherished, especially as we see the world being propelled faster and faster into the perils of the end time.

How long have you been sinless?

As far as my account in heaven goes, since January 1986. Practically speaking.......I'll let you know when it happens. Prolly not the answer you were looking for.

 

[Cooper]

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
It looks as though everyone is predestined for hell, unless someone provides a way of escape.
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

even those not under the Mosaic Law were subject to their flesh too, before it was crucified with Christ. (with the affections and lusts, Gal 5:24)

There's no doubt about that. The law simply aroused and magnified the human desire to sin already present in us, making it all the more clear and obvious our condemnation and our need for a savior.

 

[Cooper]

There's no doubt about that. The law simply aroused and magnified the human desire to sin already present in us, making it all the more clear and obvious our condemnation and our need for a savior.

Yes JB, but then there is a special group of people is there not.
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes JB, but then there is a special group of people is there not.
.

What group is that?

 

[GodsGrace]

Born again Christians obey the dictates of sin, not because they have to (that reason was eradicated at the cross), but out of fear and intimidation, ignorance, lack of vigilance, lack of experience dealing with temptation, and sometimes just plain old foolishness. I want to say which one is the biggest reason, but I can't decide between fear, and ignorance. Probably ignorance. The Christian life is all about growing up through knowledge to maturity and into the image of Christ. It's a lifelong education.

Spiritually speaking, I feel like I've been taking 9th grade Geometry over and over again. Living out the mature fruit of love in practice has been a very difficult thing to remember and do. Just when I think I got it down, I realize I don't. And so back to the text book and the teacher who's teaching it I go.

Very interesting.
I came to know Jesus when I was about 27/28 years old.
Just a few years ago.

When I think back to how I was it scares me.
I was changed, not much. Didn't really do worldly sinning, if you know what I mean.
But I still gossiped with my cousin, and I still got angry, etc.
I think the Holy Spirit deals with us a little at a time.
Or, He could deal with someone immediate, like drug addicts that stop doing drugs immediately.
I think that dealing with temptation is a big one...I think this stays with us all our life, but it does
become easier and easier to avoid all the things I stated about - gossiping, anger, etc.

This is why it's difficult to give advice to other Christians.
It may be damaging.
I think when God tells us to stop something we do, and until then we can't.

 

[GodsGrace]

...but is it called that correctly? I say, 'no'. The NIV translators, who apparently are the ones who started calling the flesh the sin nature, seem to realize that now.

It doesn't matter anymore Jethro.
You aren't going to stop the phrase from being used!
There's another phrase I dislike (can't remember it right now) but
I have no power to stop it from being used.

Oh. It's REPENT when they really mean FEEL SORRY FOR. BE CONTRITE, REGRET, ETC.

A person only REPENTS one time in life.
Repent means to turn away from the evil one and change course leading to God.
It means to change our path, go the other way.

We just don't all use the same dictionary...

 

[Hopeful]

It doesn't matter anymore Jethro.
You aren't going to stop the phrase from being used!
There's another phrase I dislike (can't remember it right now) but
I have no power to stop it from being used.

Oh. It's REPENT when they really mean FEEL SORRY FOR. BE CONTRITE, REGRET, ETC.

A person only REPENTS one time in life.
Repent means to turn away from the evil one and change course leading to God.
It means to change our path, go the other way.

We just don't all use the same dictionary...

The repentant (of sin) are by definition non-sinners.
They regretted their past sins enough to stop doing them.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe it is because we have a desire to be our own god.

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate.
Genesis 3:6 NKJV

God is great! What is better than to be great like Him? The problem is we not only want to be like Him, we want to be Him. We want to cut the umbilical cord so-to-speak and control our own lives rather than depending on Him.

Most children do the same thing with regard to their parents. At first we are fully dependent on our parents for everything. As we grow and mature we become more and more independent and eventually many, if not most, actually go through a rebellious stage at some point along the way. We don't want to be dependent on our parents anymore but want to be independent and in control of our own lives and it continues until our death. When we are old and no longer able to take proper care of ourselves and our children then try to help us, we stubbornly rebel against them.

Agreed.
This is really what Adam and Eve did.
The evil one convinced them that God was just jealous and didn't want them to be like Him.

In fact, when we sin, we are being our own God.
We're saying to God that our rules are just as important as His and that we could choose to follow our own rules instead of His. Thus taking away His sovereignty and wanting to be like Him in morality - which is impossible.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can respond to you using Neuroscience. We all have lower or reptilian brain something we share with animals. This is a reactive brain, all sins are part of reactions. As human beings we do have thinking and contemplating upper brain aka neocortex. This is a responsive brain and there is a constant battle between these two brains.. we become more human beings as we use more of neocortex. You are deeply loved.

Hi Loveendures
Yes, this is an interesting idea that is true, of course.
Animals do not sin because they react out of need to survive.
Jane Goodall noticed that chimpanzees do actual evil, but it still cannot be sin
because they have no real moral base. In the case I'm thinking of they were acting
out of protection of their territory, but they didn't only kill the enemy, they tore the enemy apart.

Humans have a conscience, which science doesn't really understand, and it's this and our knowledge of moral right and wrong that keeps us in check.

Which brings up an interesting question.
IF God were abolished from society, how long would our morals last?
I give it 2 or 3 generations, and then we would be in chaos or anarchy, or something like that -
maybe totalitarianism.

 

[Cooper]

What group is that?

The predestined elect.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

The repentant (of sin) are by definition non-sinners.
They regretted their past sins enough to stop doing them.

Agreed.
We certainly can stop doing some sins - it is within our power.
But we must be made aware of them and call upon God to help us.
John 16:7-8
7But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocatea won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you.
8And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.

 

[Hopeful]

Agreed.
This is really what Adam and Eve did.
The evil one convinced them that God was just jealous and didn't want them to be like Him.

In fact, when we sin, we are being our own God.
We're saying to God that our rules are just as important as His and that we could choose to follow our own rules instead of His. Thus taking away His sovereignty and wanting to be like Him in morality - which is impossible.

Isn't the Christian life based on being like Him in morality?
And it is possible, as we receive a divine nature at our rebirth from His seed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The predestined elect.
.

Yes, those elected on the basis of their faith in Christ and predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ do exist.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It doesn't matter anymore Jethro.
You aren't going to stop the phrase from being used!

No, I'm not going to stop it being used. You can't put the toothpaste back into the tube, lol. But I hope to help people understand what the sin nature actually is if they want to use that phrase.

 

[Cooper]

Yes, those elected on the basis of their faith in Christ and predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ do exist.

Elected from the foundation of the earth, is before Christ!
.

 

[GodsGrace]

Elected from the foundation of the earth, is before Christ!
.

Elected means chosen.
Like when you elect someone for a political office.

When you elect some person for office, you do so with a reason.
Same with God.
He elects/chooses you for salvation.

But it's based on a reason.
He doesn't just pick a person arbitrarily for no reason at all.
He is a merciful and loving and just God and He has allowed us to know what we must do to be saved.

So He does elect us, but based on our decision to love and follow Him.
Would you agree?

This cannot happen before the beginning - it has to happen when we decide to follow the Spirit and be disciples of Jesus.

 

[Cooper]

Elected means chosen.
Like when you elect someone for a political office.

When you elect some person for office, you do so with a reason.
Same with God.
He elects/chooses you for salvation.

But it's based on a reason.
He doesn't just pick a person arbitrarily for no reason at all.
He is a merciful and loving and just God and He has allowed us to know what we must do to be saved.

So He does elect us, but based on our decision to love and follow Him.
Would you agree?

This cannot happen before the beginning - it has to happen when we decide to follow the Spirit and be disciples of Jesus.

The elect are those who are chosen, as you say, are people like Abraham, Moses, King David and even Judas, who would enable the fulfilment of God's pre-ordained plan from the foundation of the earth, implemented at the appropriate time.

Lights out for me.
.