WHY DO WE SIN?

[GodsGrace]

OK, then keep looking for those who are living right.

Stick with the truth.
If their manner of dress is bad, it is bad.
"The spiritual man judgeth all things." (1 Cor 2:15)

Do things that are encouraging, and avoid the things that don't.
Know that you have the most powerful "Back-up" in the universe on your side.
1 John 2:1 calls Him our Advocate.
Use Him when discouraged.

I thank you for your kind thoughts.

Just want to say that I don't think it's very nice of us to think negative thoughts of others.
They could be poor or having a difficult time. I try not to judge a book by its cover.
I don't think this is a good thing to do.
As I said, however, sometimes these thoughts do pop into my mind.
This is why I say that we sin all the time - more than what we even think.
I'm just a bit sensitive to sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This would make an interesting thread.

Sin is "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4. A law summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself' Leviticus 19:18.

But let's be clear. Some things in the law are simply no longer forbidden. For example, eating the blood of the sacrifice. In fact, we are commanded to eat the blood of the sacrifice in this New Covenant. We have no life of the Sacrifice in us if we don't. Under law it is forbidden to take the life of the sacrifice into the worshipper. An illustration for us that law in no way provides life to the worshipper. Only in the New Covenant of grace can that happen.

 

[jaybo]

No - it specifically says we are buried by baptism. You do not bury a living body. You bury a dead one. I do not know why you are negating what the text actually says in favor of your opinion.

Baptism is a symbolic burial of the "old man" who is infected by sin. So you do bury a living body. Then the person is symbolically reborn as a new creation in Christ.

I do not know why you are negating what the text actually says in favor of your opinion.

 

[D-D-W]

Baptism is a symbolic burial of the "old man" who is infected by sin. So you do bury a living body. Then the person is symbolically reborn as a new creation in Christ.

You are dealing with spiritual realities here, not just "symbols." There are real transactions going on at the spiritual (invisible) level. No - you do not bury a body before it is dead.

 

[D-D-W]

Sin is "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4. A law summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself' Leviticus 19:18.

2 things here:

1 - different languages have different word orders; and when you use any form of the verb "to be" like "is," either way is acceptable. Since there are other definitions of "sin" even in the NT, using this as the one and only definition is wrong because it does not fit the other cases. Perhaps a better way of putting it would be "Transgression of the Law is sin."

2 - Love your neighbor as yourself works only if you are healthy. What if you are suicidal? To love your neighbor as yourself and you plan on killing yourself makes it a murder suicide situation. Our Lord took that command one step further in John 13.34 where He said "Love one another as I have loved you."

 

[Edward]

Baptism is a symbolic burial of the "old man" who is infected by sin. So you do bury a living body. Then the person is symbolically reborn as a new creation in Christ.

That's only for the material realm. Exactly what happens in the spiritual realm as we are baptised? Do you know? I don't know the extent of the Baptism here in the spiritual realm.

But what I do know is that scripture says that when a seed is put into the ground it must die to bear fruit.

John 12:24-25
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.../

Unto life eternal in v 25. There it tells us that it's speaking of the eternal, or spiritual realm. So there's a lot more going on here than symbolism in the natural realm. It symbolises buring the old man and the dedication to the Kingdom of God and the fruit that promises to bring. So the old man really is dead at baptism in the spiritual realm. Were you not given a new spirit upon being born again?

Our actions and words in the flesh have profound significance and affect in the spiritual realm. We justdon't get to see it yet.

 

[Hopeful]

No - it specifically says we are buried by baptism. You do not bury a living body. You bury a dead one. I do not know why you are negating what the text actually says in favor of your opinion.

Actually, they happen at the same time.
Rom 6:3..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

 

[Hopeful]

It's authority over you has died.

I disagree.
Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
It makes no mention of authority/Law.
I was killed with Christ, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)

Like a deceased husband who no longer has the authority by force of law to make you do what he commands you to do. That doesn't mean we won't still ignorantly or fearfully cave into the demands of now deceased husband, 'flesh'.

Again I disagree.
Your example is ludicrous.
Why would somebody be afraid of someone else who is dead?
It is written in Rom 7:4..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead..."
My old self, born of the seed of Adam, was killed with Christ.
It has no more power over me...thanks be to God.

The better we understand that our old husband 'flesh' no longer has marital authority over us to make us do what he commands the more likely we are to resist his voice from the grave trying to assert an authority he no longer has over us by reason of his death. We are to reckon him dead. That means 'talk to hand, dead husband. You no longer have the force of law over me to make me do what you want, 'cause you're dead. And close the door on your way out.'

You are mixing your metaphors.
The "old husband" is the Law, not the fleshly oriented mind.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Indeed. Our Lord had an angel announce His miraculous birth; but there was no such event with David's birth. Not the same at all.

There are legal fathers and biological fathers and they are not the same thing although both fathers. David was raised in Jesse's household although the suspicion was that his mother had committed adultery and hence they despised him which explains what they did. Being the youngest is not sufficient reason to despise a brother. Being illegitimate was and that was why David wrote that. He was raised somewhat of a rejected man but God did not reject him. In the Psalm he was expressing this lament, that he was illegitimate. That is why he wrote that he was conceived when his mother sinned not that he was a sinful fetus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That doesn't make what he did any less sinful. The matter of whether or not the dog is to be held accountable and punished for doing that is what develops over time. But it's always a sin to poop where he's not supposed to. He is by nature, from birth, going to poop where he's not supposed to. We all will, lol.

If a creature does not understand morals, they cannot sin. They cannot make a sinful choice. The lion who eat the doe is not making a sinful choice. The man who eats his neighbor's child is.

But from the rest of your post I see that this is likely pointless. You are determined to see this as sin which clearly is not.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Did you understand the definition of iniquity? It is the transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions.

Not from scripture..."if I read iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me" is not a transgenerational effect. It is the same as sin. But there are transgenerational effects of sin and they are a matter we are all too ignorant of. These are quite strong and quite real. But whether we call it sin or iniquity does not matter. They are rebellion against the laws of God whose effects are passed down to generations unless broken.

For example: if daddy is a drunk, then there is a high likelihood that his kids will also be drunks or druggies. If he is mean and beats his wife, there is a high likelihood his boys will grow up to do the same. IF he swears a lot, probably his kids will too. Transgenerational.

Well, some of that is learned. But there are spiritual forces that are given power over subsequent generations through sin, true. Good point.

BTW - the 15 yo boy who digs up grandma's potatoes out of spite is transgressing, but it is not iniquity unless his parents or grandparents also reacted in anger by spitefull acts; and he learned it from them.

At 15 a boy is learning from other sources and if he was angry at grandma, it was iniquity regardless of what his parents do or did. But I have seen young children imitate the sin their parents do. I was thinking about this, if a child observes his parents lie to someone about a matter, he has indeed been taught to lie when it is more convenient that the truth. The idea that a child does not need to be taught to lie is ignoring years of watching his parents lie or sneak or cheat or other sins. They are indeed taught to sin.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Which fits into the definition of "iniquity."

I suspect we see the definition of the word differently. To me is it another word for sin and I know scriptures where it is used same as "sin" is used.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think you're the one actually doing that. You seem to be refusing to acknowledge the commands of God in the book of Proverbs and collectively referring to them as suggestions for wise behavior.

No, scholars have recognized that there’s a difference between historical, prophetic, poetic and wisdom literature. We are talking PhDs.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A thought might miss the mark, but we have no control over sudden or random thoughts.
I'd say that it's what we do with them that counts.
We need to realize that we're thinking something unpleasant, or judgmental, or whatever, and we
just stop and realize we did, and this is not a sin.

To be a sin, something must be done with one's knowledge of the wrong,
It's a deed or desire contrary to eternal law.
It's an offense against God.
It is disobedience toward God.

A random thought cannot be a sin.

Nicely said and quite true. Most of us don’t realize that it is often the Enemy who puts thoughts in our heads. We think they cane from us. Few ask “where did that evil come from” when dealing with it. If we reject it, as you describe, it was not a sin. If we embrace it and act upon it, it becomes one, as you said.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, scholars have recognized that there’s a difference between historical, prophetic, poetic and wisdom literature. We are talking PhDs.

You are choosing to ignore the fact that Proverbs contains many commands.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If a creature does not understand morals, they cannot sin. They cannot make a sinful choice. The lion who eat the doe is not making a sinful choice. The man who eats his neighbor's child is.

The Bible has a different opinion than you.

Genesis 9:5
5And surely I will require the life of any man or beast by whose hand your lifeblood is shed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Perhaps a better way of putting it would be "Transgression of the Law is sin."

No, that's not better. We must leave it the way the Bible orders it.

1 John 3:4
Everyone committing sin also commits lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. BSB
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. KJV

You change the meaning if you switch it to 'transgression of the law is sin' because there are instances in this New Covenant where transgression of the law is not sin anymore.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

2 - Love your neighbor as yourself works only if you are healthy. What if you are suicidal? To love your neighbor as yourself and you plan on killing yourself makes it a murder suicide situation. Our Lord took that command one step further in John 13.34 where He said "Love one another as I have loved you."

Loving others as you love yourself really is the summation of the law (Romans 13:9). I didn't make that up.

Love does no harm (Romans 13:10). Suicide is obviously not loving yourself. So the law of love would STOP you from murdering someone else, because suicide is not loving yourself. We see this principle clearly in the matter of a man loving his wife the same way he loves his own body.

Ephesians 5:28-29
28In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would somebody be afraid of someone else who is dead?

That's Paul's point exactly!
Don't be afraid of the body of sin that has died in Christ.

The point Paul is making is the flesh no longer has authority over you to make you submit to what it wants, because the law that enforced your submission to the flesh (Romans 7:8,11) is only in effect while the flesh is still alive. 'Husband' flesh, who by force of law made us do what it desired (1 Corinthians 15:56), died with Christ on the cross and so it lost it's power, it's authority, afforded by the law to make you do what it desires.

It is written in Rom 7:4..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead..."
My old self, born of the seed of Adam, was killed with Christ.
It has no more power over me...thanks be to God.

Exactly!
The flesh no longer has the authority to make you sin. It's power, afforded by the law (see references above), has ended, because the flesh is dead. Your flesh is like a deceased husband who no longer has the lawful authority to make you to submit to it's desires because he's dead. And so it is on this truth that Christians can resist the dictates of the flesh. That's a dead man speaking. You don't have to listen to what he says anymore.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are mixing your metaphors.
The "old husband" is the Law, not the fleshly oriented mind.

No, the law acted like a marriage license that enforced our submission to the desires of the flesh. Like how a wife, by reason of the law of marriage, must submit to her husband's desires. But, since the law of marriage that binds a wife to her husband is only in effect while the husband is alive, she is released from having to submit to the husband's desires when he dies.

And so it is with us. The flesh who once commanded our submission to it, by force of law, can not do that anymore because he's dead. The authority of the law that makes us serve the desires of the flesh ends with the death of the flesh. And so we are now free to be in marital submission to new husband and Master, Jesus Christ, and bear His fruit.