WHY DO WE SIN?

[electedbyHim]

No its not. “In sin did my MOTHER CONCEIVE me” means only one thing. Its those whose used this means the baby is sinful who change the original meaning to an “interpretive one.”

No they didn’t because its not. “Let the marriage bed be HOLY” was the view of the believers til Augustine.

Of course the obvious statement by David is correct. His mother is assumed to have committed adultery.

Wrong as usual.

 

[GodsGrace]

The elect are those who are chosen, as you say, are people like Abraham, Moses, King David and even Judas, who would enable the fulfilment of God's pre-ordained plan from the foundation of the earth, implemented at the appropriate time.

Lights out for me.
.

Lights out for me too!

I could agree with the above.
But do you mean EVERYONE was chosen before time?

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrong as usual.

I believe Dorothy Mae is correct, but I was just signing off.
Tomorrow.

It doesn't mean David was born SINFUL,
an infant cannot be sinful at birth, although he does have the sinful nature...

David's mother is believed to be having an affair, or doing something else immoral, can't remember.

Try looking this up.

 

[Cooper]

Lights out for me too!

I could agree with the above.
But do you mean EVERYONE was chosen before time?

Everyone is chosen for salvation, we often say Jesus died for the whosoever, but the elect, chosen by God, needed to be in the right place, at the right time, and among the right people, to be able to perform a particular work His will to do, as-and-when it needed doing, at the right time and in the right place.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone is chosen for salvation, we often say Jesus died for the whosoever, but the elect needed to be in the right place, at the right time, and among the right people, to be able to perform a particular work His will to do, as-and-when it needed doing, at the right time and in the right place.
.

Hmmm.
To be continued tomorrow.
As you know, it's late here.
'night.

 

[Tenchi]

Paul addressed the church, which had carnal unbelievers in it.

Yes, he did. And those same carnal people Paul called "babes in Christ." You seem to think simply ignoring what Paul actually wrote and spinning things to suit your thinking can negate his explicitly-stated meaning. I'm afraid this isn't the case.

He is hoping he can draw them back from the abyss.
A soft word can sometimes do what yelling and raging can't.

Paul says nothing to the "carnal babes in Christ" he mentioned about "drawing them back from the abyss." There is nothing at all like this stated in the entire chapter. Instead, as I showed in an earlier post, Paul repeatedly confirms that the carnal, contentious believers at Corinth as fellow members of God's family, calling them "brethren," and God's "field and building," and "temple."

Hopeful, you replied to my question as follows:

How do you mean you are sinless? In actual, practical daily living? If so, I would refer you to the apostle John's words:

I mean, I don't commit sin.

Then, you are deeply deceived about yourself.

Hopeful, you replied to my quotation from 1 John as follows:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John is addressing the church about BOTH those who walk in the darkness/sin AND about those who walk in the light/God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, concern those who walk in darkness/sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9, concern those who walk in the light/God.
Verse 8's folks are those still walking in sin, so of course they cannot say they have no sin.
But I, and others who walk in the light, have confessed our past sins and had all of our past sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
We can surely say we have no sins.

John uses the word "we" repeatedly in the passage above, in so doing, isolating his remarks to those who qualify inclusion in that plural pronoun: born-again believers, like John. In verse 8, 9, and 10 "we" and "us" are used exclusively and so it cannot be asserted that John is referring in any of these verses to any other sort of person than the sort of person that is like he is. The idea, then, that John is describing two different, separate kinds of people makes nonsense of John's words. In actuality, John is referring to any born-again believer who asserts they have no sin, calling them deceived, devoid of the truth, and guilty of calling God a liar. Strong stuff. And particularly pertinent to you who has claimed not sin.

In Christ, in our spiritual position in him, we are all perfectly, permanently justified and sanctified (1 Corinthians 1:30). But in our daily living, in our mundane condition, as I already explained to you, we will spend all of our lives manifesting ever more fully the truth of our position in Christ. At no time, though, will any believer be able to say in all honesty that they are in their condition fully, consistently sinless. Many of the sins that plague us are so deeply buried, so obscure to us, that we don't realize they exist in us. And many of the things God calls sin we love, so steeped in sin are we. What hope, then, do we have of arriving at sinless perfection in our actual living? None. Though, we can be far more holy than we are, every day moving closer and closer to the righteousness of Christ by which we have been saved by the convicting and illuminating work of the Holy Spirit. (John 16:8-13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)

Your doctrine is an accommodation for sin.

No, it is the simple reality of every child of God, illustrated all throughout the pages of the New Testament.

Every child of God has turned from sin and been "immersed" into Christ and into His death and burial.
AND, have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
We are new creatures with a divine nature now.

Positionally, yes. But not in our condition, in our mundane, practical living. Hence, Paul's letter to the carnal Corinthian believers, and his critical letter to the believers at Galatia (Galatians 3:1-3), and James's blunt comments to the readers of his letter (James 3), as well as Peter's injunctions to his fellow children of God (1 Peter 2). If sinless perfection were the common state-of-affairs for every born-again person, what need would there have been for the multitude of commands from the apostles to fellow born-again believers to believe right, and think right and do right? Sinless people are, by definition, already doing these things and have no need, therefore, of such exhortation.

Obey the exhortations and live forever !

No, you've got it backwards, Hopeful. It is because I will live forever that I am able to obey scriptural exhortations. Obedience is not the means of my salvation; obedience is the consequence, the fruit, of my salvation. I abide in Christ and THEN I bear fruit. (John 15:5) I must already possess the life of Christ in my "earthen vessel" in order to manifest that life in my thinking and conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:6-11)

As new creatures, one will continue to grow in grace and knowledge as we age, but our fruit can only be of God now.
We cannot bring forth fruit of any other man's, or devil's, seed.

That's not what God's word says.

As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

It also says:

Romans 7:15-19
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, he did. And those same carnal people Paul called "babes in Christ." You seem to think simply ignoring what Paul actually wrote and spinning things to suit your thinking can negate his explicitly-stated meaning. I'm afraid this isn't the case.

You are ignoring the context.
Paul is debasing the fracturing/separating among the brethren.
What worse words can a brother hear than that he is still walking after the flesh, or so new to the faith that his ignorance is showing.

Paul says nothing to the "carnal babes in Christ" he mentioned about "drawing them back from the abyss." There is nothing at all like this stated in the entire chapter. Instead, as I showed in an earlier post, Paul repeatedly confirms that the carnal, contentious believers at Corinth as fellow members of God's family, calling them "brethren," and God's "field and building," and "temple."

Are carnal contentious men in your church?
Not in mine.
Christians walk after the Spirit, and never after the fleshly minded nature that was crucified with Christ on their first day in the church.

Hopeful, you replied to my question as follows:
I mean, I don't commit sin.
Then, you are deeply deceived about yourself.

If I still committed sin, it would show I had not repented of sin.
It would show that my "flesh" was still alive and I was walking after it instead of after the Spirit.
It would show that I still served sin instead of serving God.
But my flesh is dead, and I do walk after the Spirit, and I do serve the Lord exclusively...thanks be to God.

Hopeful, you replied to my quotation from 1 John as follows:
John is addressing the church about BOTH those who walk in the darkness/sin AND about those who walk in the light/God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, concern those who walk in darkness/sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9, concern those who walk in the light/God.
Verse 8's folks are those still walking in sin, so of course they cannot say they have no sin.
But I, and others who walk in the light, have confessed our past sins and had all of our past sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
We can surely say we have no sins.

John uses the word "we" repeatedly in the passage above, in so doing, isolating his remarks to those who qualify inclusion in that plural pronoun: born-again believers, like John. In verse 8, 9, and 10 "we" and "us" are used exclusively and so it cannot be asserted that John is referring in any of these verses to any other sort of person than the sort of person that is like he is. The idea, then, that John is describing two different, separate kinds of people makes nonsense of John's words. In actuality, John is referring to any born-again believer who asserts they have no sin, calling them deceived, devoid of the truth, and guilty of calling God a liar. Strong stuff. And particularly pertinent to you who has claimed not sin.

Yes, he does use the word "we" repeatedly.
He also uses the word "if" repeatedly.
IF we walk in darkness, juxtaposed by IF we walk in the light.
Two different choices are available to men.

In Christ, in our spiritual position in him, we are all perfectly, permanently justified and sanctified (1 Corinthians 1:30). But in our daily living, in our mundane condition, as I already explained to you, we will spend all of our lives manifesting ever more fully the truth of our position in Christ. At no time, though, will any believer be able to say in all honesty that they are in their condition fully, consistently sinless.

If they can't say they have no sin, they are the ones walking in darkness from 1 John 1:6.
They can's say they have fellowship with God either.
You keep using the word "positional" as a defense for sin.
Why not be "actually" in Christ?

Many of the sins that plague us are so deeply buried, so obscure to us, that we don't realize they exist in us. And many of the things God calls sin we love, so steeped in sin are we. What hope, then, do we have of arriving at sinless perfection in our actual living? None. Though, we can be far more holy than we are, every day moving closer and closer to the righteousness of Christ by which we have been saved by the convicting and illuminating work of the Holy Spirit. (John 16:8-13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)

Go ahead and keep clinging to sin, but it is pointless, seeing as Jesus has made a way to be free of sin.
If you want to actually be IN CHRIST, turn from sin and get baptized into Him.
Not only will you receive remission from your past sins, but you will also kill the old man of sin and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

No, it is the simple reality of every child of God, illustrated all throughout the pages of the New Testament.

The children of God, by His seed, cannot commit sin.
Apple seeds cannot bear onions.
God's seed cannot bear liars, murderers, or thieves.

Positionally, yes. But not in our condition, in our mundane, practical living. Hence, Paul's letter to the carnal Corinthian believers, and his critical letter to the believers at Galatia (Galatians 3:1-3), and James's blunt comments to the readers of his letter (James 3), as well as Peter's injunctions to his fellow children of God (1 Peter 2). If sinless perfection were the common state-of-affairs for every born-again person, what need would there have been for the multitude of commands from the apostles to fellow born-again believers to believe right, and think right and do right? Sinless people are, by definition, already doing these things and have no need, therefore, of such exhortation.

When you say "positionally" to me, it means "not actually".
I exhort you to change that.

No, you've got it backwards, Hopeful. It is because I will live forever that I am able to obey scriptural exhortations. Obedience is not the means of my salvation; obedience is the consequence, the fruit, of my salvation. I abide in Christ and THEN I bear fruit. (John 15:5) I must already possess the life of Christ in my "earthen vessel" in order to manifest that life in my thinking and conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:6-11)

That being said, your sin also indicates you are not "saved".
If obedience is the consequence of your salvation, what is disobedience the consequence of?
It is the consequence of the seed you are still born of.
That, thanks be to God, can be changed.

That's not what God's word says.

You had better read 1 John 3:9-10..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It also says:
Romans 7:15-19
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

That was Paul's narrative of his past life as a failing Jewish Law keeper.
As we are now the temple of God, sin cannot exist in us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Everyone is chosen for salvation

Matthew 22:14
14For many are called, but few chosen.”

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Elected from the foundation of the earth, is before Christ!
.

Actually, it's 'elected from the foundation of the earth IN HIM', not before Him. Ephesians 1:4

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It doesn't mean David was born SINFUL,
an infant cannot be sinful at birth, although he does have the sinful nature...

Except for John the Baptist, no one is born a saint. All newborn babies are sinners waiting to sin. That's just what we are. All of us. Right from the beginning in the womb. We are all created as sinners right from the get-go, destined to do what we by nature are going to do—sin. Only in Christ is that destiny changed. Through faith in Christ we take on the predetermined destiny of the children of God—righteousness.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are ignoring the context.
Paul is debasing the fracturing/separating among the brethren.
What worse words can a brother hear than that he is still walking after the flesh, or so new to the faith that his ignorance is showing.

Are carnal contentious men in your church?
Not in mine.
Christians walk after the Spirit, and never after the fleshly minded nature that was crucified with Christ on their first day in the church.

If I still committed sin, it would show I had not repented of sin.
It would show that my "flesh" was still alive and I was walking after it instead of after the Spirit.
It would show that I still served sin instead of serving God.
But my flesh is dead, and I do walk after the Spirit, and I do serve the Lord exclusively...thanks be to God.

Yes, he does use the word "we" repeatedly.
He also uses the word "if" repeatedly.
IF we walk in darkness, juxtaposed by IF we walk in the light.
Two different choices are available to men.

If they can't say they have no sin, they are the ones walking in darkness from 1 John 1:6.
They can's say they have fellowship with God either.
You keep using the word "positional" as a defense for sin.
Why not be "actually" in Christ?

Go ahead and keep clinging to sin, but it is pointless, seeing as Jesus has made a way to be free of sin.
If you want to actually be IN CHRIST, turn from sin and get baptized into Him.
Not only will you receive remission from your past sins, but you will also kill the old man of sin and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

The children of God, by His seed, cannot commit sin.
Apple seeds cannot bear onions.
God's seed cannot bear liars, murderers, or thieves.

When you say "positionally" to me, it means "not actually".
I exhort you to change that.

That being said, your sin also indicates you are not "saved".
If obedience is the consequence of your salvation, what is disobedience the consequence of?
It is the consequence of the seed you are still born of.
That, thanks be to God, can be changed.

You had better read 1 John 3:9-10..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

That was Paul's narrative of his past life as a failing Jewish Law keeper.
As we are now the temple of God, sin cannot exist in us.

Hopeful
The title of the thread is WHY DO WE SIN...
not Do We Sin.

As you know, your convo with Tenchi must stop and you know why.

 

[WIP]

Hi Loveendures
Yes, this is an interesting idea that is true, of course.
Animals do not sin because they react out of need to survive.
Jane Goodall noticed that chimpanzees do actual evil, but it still cannot be sin
because they have no real moral base. In the case I'm thinking of they were acting
out of protection of their territory, but they didn't only kill the enemy, they tore the enemy apart.

Humans have a conscience, which science doesn't really understand, and it's this and our knowledge of moral right and wrong that keeps us in check.

Which brings up an interesting question.
IF God were abolished from society, how long would our morals last?
I give it 2 or 3 generations, and then we would be in chaos or anarchy, or something like that -
maybe totalitarianism.

Animals do not know good from evil. Humankind didn't either until we took from the fruit of the tree.

 

[WIP]

Which brings up an interesting question.
IF God were abolished from society, how long would our morals last?
I give it 2 or 3 generations, and then we would be in chaos or anarchy, or something like that -
maybe totalitarianism.

Just look at our world around us. Morality has been deteriorating continuously and things are chaotic and anarchy. We call what is evil good, sexual immorality for example, and what is good evil, protection of the unborn for example.

 

[D-D-W]

How could I possibly have been dead??? I was very much alive when I was baptized, as was everyone else. It was clearly symbolic! And quite obviously I am not dead, since I am sitting at my keyboard typing this.

If you don't understand the difference between actual, physical death and spiritual death you are in serious trouble. When Paul wrote that to the Colossians, don't you think they were alive? I mean, really!

You were physically alive - yes.
But the old nature, the sin part, was DEAD; not figuratively, not metaphorically, but truly dead.

Or do you think salvation is somehow figurative or metaphorical?

 

[D-D-W]

Animals do not know good from evil. Humankind didn't either until we took from the fruit of the tree.

Animals can be driven by evil and even demonized. Reference the Gadredene Demoniac.

 

[Tenchi]

You are ignoring the context.
Paul is debasing the fracturing/separating among the brethren.
What worse words can a brother hear than that he is still walking after the flesh, or so new to the faith that his ignorance is showing.

Actually, I am giving more careful attendance to what Paul wrote than you seem to be doing. Yes, Paul is using an unflattering description of the Corinthian Christians but his description both criticizes and confirms, calling out the sinful conduct of the believers at Corinth while also identifying them as children of God. In fact, it is the incongruity of their rotten conduct with their position in Christ that Paul, in part, wants to highlight when he describes them as "carnal babes in Christ."

Are carnal contentious men in your church?
Not in mine.
Christians walk after the Spirit, and never after the fleshly minded nature that was crucified with Christ on their first day in the church.

Sure, there are quite a few in my church.

Some Christians walk after the Spirit; many others do not. This is exactly why Paul had to write to the Galatian believers and tell them to "walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16) He would not have had to write such a thing if the Galatian believers were already doing so, right? As I have already pointed out to you, the New Testament is full of these sorts of injunctions to born-again believers, the obvious implication being that they were not living in the manner prescribed by apostolic commands. One doesn't urge a person to swim to shore who is already standing on the beach.

If I still committed sin, it would show I had not repented of sin.

It might. It might also reveal simple ignorance, as in the case of this thread. Brother, there is sin within you buried so deep, held so close, you have no idea yet that it is sin. As you continue to walk with God, He'll bring these places of darkness within you to His light and free you from them. To imagine that you have arrived at God's holy perfection, that you have a proper understanding of what it is, shows a profoundly diminished view of God and a grossly elevated conception of your own humanness.

It would show that my "flesh" was still alive and I was walking after it instead of after the Spirit.

Yes, it would. But this was such a common feature of the lives of the believers of the Early Church, the apostles had to write to them about it repeatedly, urging them to a better, deeper walk with God, as I've shown in earlier posts.

It would show that I still served sin instead of serving God.
But my flesh is dead, and I do walk after the Spirit, and I do serve the Lord exclusively...thanks be to God.

Spiritually, your "old man" is separated from you, held impotent on the cross of Christ, freeing you from the power of Self and Sin (Romans 6:1-11). But the presence of these things remains, and may contend with your "new nature in Christ," which is why Paul had to write what he did to the believers at Rome in chapter 6 of his letter to them. The devil, too, works to inflame your "old man," provoking you toward sinful behavior. Being a "new creation," then, does not instantly and permanently liberate you from the habits/reflexes of the former and the attacks of the latter. This is indicated all across the pages of the New Testament in every exhortation to you and I to live according to the commands, principles and character of God.

Yes, he does use the word "we" repeatedly.
He also uses the word "if" repeatedly.
IF we walk in darkness, juxtaposed by IF we walk in the light.
Two different choices are available to men.

Nothing you've said here refutes or negates what I pointed out to you about 1 John 1:8-10.

If they can't say they have no sin, they are the ones walking in darkness from 1 John 1:6.

1 John 1:6
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

What does it mean to "walk in darkness"? The sense conveyed by "walk" is of a continuing, persistent course of conduct, a character of living that is consistently traveling in darkness. And just to be clear, to head off the very misconstruction you're trying to place on his words, John went on to clarify his meaning:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John did not mean to say that any sin whatever, however briefly indulged, or occasional, shows one is not saved but only that a life persistently and consistently characterized by sin does not enjoy fellowship with God. As the Prodigal Son story indicates, one can be in a relationship with God and not enjoying fellowship with Him; one can be child of God but living in rebellion to Him in a far country.

You keep using the word "positional" as a defense for sin.
Why not be "actually" in Christ?

No, I used "positional" to describe the reality of the believer's spiritual identity in Christ. That identity is just as actual as the nose on my face but its manifestation in my daily living grows over time.

Go ahead and keep clinging to sin,

This is called Strawman arguing. It's fallacious. I am not clinging to sin, but I'm not pretending to holy perfection, either. Instead, I am being carefully biblical. How about you?

If you want to actually be IN CHRIST, turn from sin and get baptized into Him.
Not only will you receive remission from your past sins, but you will also kill the old man of sin and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

I've been in Christ since I was eight years old. I'm in my mid-fifties now.

The children of God, by His seed, cannot commit sin.
Apple seeds cannot bear onions.
God's seed cannot bear liars, murderers, or thieves.

This isn't what the Bible actually indicates. See above.

Many are the apple trees that do not bear apples, or bear only small, shriveled ones. These trees are in poor soil, or lack adequate moisture, or have contracted a pest or disease (or are afflicted by all three). But they are apple trees, nonetheless. You see, bearing apples isn't what makes an apple tree an apple tree. No tree bears apples that isn't already an apple tree; bearing apples isn't the means to being an apple tree but the result of being one.

When you say "positionally" to me, it means "not actually".
I exhort you to change that.

I exhort you to understand the terms I use in the way I'm using them.

That being said, your sin also indicates you are not "saved".

Nope. See above.

If obedience is the consequence of your salvation, what is disobedience the consequence of?
It is the consequence of the seed you are still born of.

Nope. See above.

 

[jaybo]

You were physically alive - yes.
But the old nature, the sin part, was DEAD; not figuratively, not metaphorically, but truly dead.

Or do you think salvation is somehow figurative or metaphorical?

The sin nature is alive in those who have not yet been reborn -- think about the meaning of that word. Why do you think that Jesus said that you must be born again? John 3:3-7, "Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

Salvation is real. It is not figurative or metaphorical.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful
The title of the thread is WHY DO WE SIN...
not Do We Sin.

As you know, your convo with Tenchi must stop and you know why.

As the topic is a strawman, don't you think an appropriate response is necessary?

 

[Hopeful]

Actually, I am giving more careful attendance to what Paul wrote than you seem to be doing. Yes, Paul is using an unflattering description of the Corinthian Christians but his description both criticizes and confirms, calling out the sinful conduct of the believers at Corinth while also identifying them as children of God. In fact, it is the incongruity of their rotten conduct with their position in Christ that Paul, in part, wants to highlight when he describes them as "carnal babes in Christ."

Paul starts his chapter with..."And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, "
That illustrates his feelings for those still walking after the "flesh".

Sure, there are quite a few in my church.

Why not "call them out", as scripture advises? (1 Tim 5:20)

Some Christians walk after the Spirit; many others do not. This is exactly why Paul had to write to the Galatian believers and tell them to "walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16) He would not have had to write such a thing if the Galatian believers were already doing so, right? As I have already pointed out to you, the New Testament is full of these sorts of injunctions to born-again believers, the obvious implication being that they were not living in the manner prescribed by apostolic commands. One doesn't urge a person to swim to shore who is already standing on the beach.

All Christians walk in the Spirit.
It is the posers who still walk after the flesh.

It might. It might also reveal simple ignorance, as in the case of this thread. Brother, there is sin within you buried so deep, held so close, you have no idea yet that it is sin. As you continue to walk with God, He'll bring these places of darkness within you to His light and free you from them. To imagine that you have arrived at God's holy perfection, that you have a proper understanding of what it is, shows a profoundly diminished view of God and a grossly elevated conception of your own humanness.

If there is sin in me, point it out...other wise it is false testimony.

Yes, it would. But this was such a common feature of the lives of the believers of the Early Church, the apostles had to write to them about it repeatedly, urging them to a better, deeper walk with God, as I've shown in earlier posts.

Not of the believers, but of the posers who were infiltrating the early church in the service of the devil.

Spiritually, your "old man" is separated from you, held impotent on the cross of Christ, freeing you from the power of Self and Sin (Romans 6:1-11). But the presence of these things remains, and may contend with your "new nature in Christ," which is why Paul had to write what he did to the believers at Rome in chapter 6 of his letter to them. The devil, too, works to inflame your "old man," provoking you toward sinful behavior. Being a "new creation," then, does not instantly and permanently liberate you from the habits/reflexes of the former and the attacks of the latter. This is indicated all across the pages of the New Testament in every exhortation to you and I to live according to the commands, principles and character of God.

You underestimate the power of God's Spirit in the new creature.
Temptation to sin is always around, but the faithful know that God always provides an escape from them too. (1 Cor 10:13)

Nothing you've said here refutes or negates what I pointed out to you about 1 John 1:8-10.

You seem not to be looking for a way to walk in the light.

1 John 1:6
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
What does it mean to "walk in darkness"? The sense conveyed by "walk" is of a continuing, persistent course of conduct, a character of living that is consistently traveling in darkness. And just to be clear, to head off the very misconstruction you're trying to place on his words, John went on to clarify his meaning:

It means, commit sin.
Pro 4:19 illustrates it perfectly..."The way of the wicked is as darkness: "
The only way to quit walking in darkness is to quit committing sin.
Otherwise, the walk in darkness is permanent.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

John did not mean to say that any sin whatever, however briefly indulged, or occasional, shows one is not saved but only that a life persistently and consistently characterized by sin does not enjoy fellowship with God. As the Prodigal Son story indicates, one can be in a relationship with God and not enjoying fellowship with Him; one can be child of God but living in rebellion to Him in a far country.

My eyes are open so I know how untrue your POV is.
How many sins did it take for Adam and Eve to be kicked out of Eden?
One.

No, I used "positional" to describe the reality of the believer's spiritual identity in Christ. That identity is just as actual as the nose on my face but its manifestation in my daily living grows over time.

If your identity is "in Christ", look around for any sin.
I know you will find none, as there is no sin "in Christ".

This is called Strawman arguing. It's fallacious. I am not clinging to sin, but I'm not pretending to holy perfection, either. Instead, I am being carefully biblical. How about you?

The fruit of your POV is the continuation of sin.
It is not of God.
It is written..."Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God." (3 John 1:11)

I've been in Christ since I was eight years old. I'm in my mid-fifties now.

There is no sin in Christ.

This isn't what the Bible actually indicates. See above.
Many are the apple trees that do not bear apples, or bear only small, shriveled ones. These trees are in poor soil, or lack adequate moisture, or have contracted a pest or disease (or are afflicted by all three). But they are apple trees, nonetheless. You see, bearing apples isn't what makes an apple tree an apple tree. No tree bears apples that isn't already an apple tree; bearing apples isn't the means to being an apple tree but the result of being one.

Just as apple seeds can only bring forth apples. God's seed can only bring forth after itself.
No liars, thieves, or murderers, were gendered by God.

I exhort you to understand the terms I use in the way I'm using them.
Nope. See above.
Nope. See above.

You use "them" in an effort to include sin in the body of Christ.

Have you ever wanted to live without sin?

 

[WIP]

Animals can be driven by evil and even demonized. Reference the Gadredene Demoniac.

True but animals are not the ones that know the difference between evil and good. Possession is something entirely different. Because we chose to eat from the tree of knowledge, we now know the difference between good and evil and quite often choose evil and it has nothing to do with demonic possession.