WHY DO WE SIN?

[Hopeful]

More like the "old man" was killed when we accept the sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross. Immersion / baptism is the funeral and burial of that dead man.

As Rom 6:6 says directly when the old man was killed, I will stick to my POV.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

 

[Hopeful]

What, pray tell, is your definition of "sin?"

I agree with John, and he wrote..."All unrighteousness is sin:..." (1 John 5:17)

 

[D-D-W]

Please explain your definition of a sin.
We all know it means missing the mark...

And that is the definition. Any thought, word or deed that misses the mark of God's will and glory.

Both the Hebrew and Greek words agree on that point, I take that as the definition. I have heard (and it makes sense) that prior to the early English translations of the bible, "sin" was also an archery term meaning to miss the target. Probably from the Latin sine, meaning "without."

 

[Hopeful]

Of course christians sin. No one other than our Lord ever hits the bulls eye 100% of the time in this life.

I guess then, that being a Jew could have provided our salvation.
Jesus disagreed.
He freed us from the unending sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, merry-go-round.
Ever heard of rebirth?

 

[D-D-W]

As Rom 6:6 says directly when the old man was killed, I will stick to my POV.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

That says nothing about immersion. The immediate verses before that say we are BURIED in baptism, not killed by baptism. The death of the old nature was on the cross and when we identify with that death.

 

[D-D-W]

I guess then, that being a Jew could have provided our salvation.
Jesus disagreed.
He freed us from the unending sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, merry-go-round.
Ever heard of rebirth?

OF course. Even the "teachers of Israel" needed to be reborn. (see John 3) Being Jewish does not provide that.

The merry-go-round you refer to is a fiction because there was one atonement for all of time and eternity: the death of Messiah. When we (as believers) sin, we look back to that one atonement.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

That is written to believers.

 

[Hopeful]

Agreed.

I think I said that.
Agreed.

I didn't mean that I have or have not experienced it.
I stated that I do not see this holiness you speak of experientially, in my experience,
of dealing with others.
Even those that believe they're Christian.

OK, then keep looking for those who are living right.

That's not what I meant Hopeful.
Of course, I meant to think badly of a neighbor - to be judgmental, maybe in their dress or manner or whatever.
A sinful thinking...

Stick with the truth.
If their manner of dress is bad, it is bad.
"The spiritual man judgeth all things." (1 Cor 2:15)

Feeling discouraged gives joy to the enemy.
I consider it a sin although I feel it quite often.

Do things that are encouraging, and avoid the things that don't.
Know that you have the most powerful "Back-up" in the universe on your side.
1 John 2:1 calls Him our Advocate.
Use Him when discouraged.

 

[Hopeful]

That says nothing about immersion. The immediate verses before that say we are BURIED in baptism, not killed by baptism. The death of the old nature was on the cross and when we identify with that death.

The entire chapter is of one context.
Our death with Christ and our new life in Him.
Water baptism was the means of my death with Christ, and of my new life in Him.
Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.".
It happens at water baptism when we are "immersed" into Christ's death.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Which fits into the definition of "iniquity."

No, the dog who poops on your prize persian rug is not committing inquity. They are not making moral
choices. My little son and his friend dug up the newly planted potatoes thinking he was helping grandma wasn't doing inquity. If he’d been 15 and angry at grandma he would have been. See the difference?

 

[Hopeful]

OF course. Even the "teachers of Israel" needed to be reborn. (see John 3) Being Jewish does not provide that.

Could they be?
How?

The merry-go-round you refer to is a fiction because there was one atonement for all of time and eternity: the death of Messiah. When we (as believers) sin, we look back to that one atonement.

Name a few of those under the Law that committed no sin.
There may have been atonements under the Law, but not freedom from sin.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
That is written to believers.

Thanks be to God, and verse 9 concludes with..."cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness"
They can then say they have no sin.
The OT Jews had no such measure unto perfection.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If that is so - then how was Jesse considered his father? In the Gospels no less.

Well Joseph is called the father of Jesus. Jesse really was his father. Its an interesting Jewish story.

 

[D-D-W]

It happens at water baptism when we are "immersed" into Christ's death.

No - it specifically says we are buried by baptism. You do not bury a living body. You bury a dead one. I do not know why you are negating what the text actually says in favor of your opinion.

 

[D-D-W]

No, the dig who poops on your prize persian rug is not committing inquity. They are not making moral
choices. My little son and his friend dug up the newly planted potatoes thinking he was helping grandma wasn't doing inquity. If he’d been 15 and angry at grandma he would have been. See the difference?

Did you understand the definition of iniquity? It is the transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions.

For example: if daddy is a drunk, then there is a high likelihood that his kids will also be drunks or druggies. If he is mean and beats his wife, there is a high likelihood his boys will grow up to do the same. IF he swears a lot, probably his kids will too. Transgenerational.

BTW - the 15 yo boy who digs up grandma's potatoes out of spite is transgressing, but it is not iniquity unless his parents or grandparents also reacted in anger by spitefull acts; and he learned it from them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is NOT what the text is saying. "I was sinful.." is not how וּבְחֵטְא should be translated. First off, the prefix vav (first letter) means "and" which I see nowhere in that rendering. The 2nd letter vet is a preposition translated "in" or "by," which I also do not see there. The rest of the word is an inflected form of the noun chatah which means sin. To miss the mark. It did not say that either child or mother were sinful; the preposition is referring to the action itself.

Childbirth is not sinful. The flow of blood associated with childbirth makes the mother unclean for a time under the law, but in and of itself, the action of giving birth is not a sin.

 

[D-D-W]

Childbirth is not sinful. The flow of blood associated with childbirth makes the mother unclean for a time under the law, but in and of itself, the action of giving birth is not a sin.

Ceremonial uncleanness is Tamay, not chatah. Tamay is not sinful. Chatah means sin. Psalm 51.5 uses chatah, not tamay. Don't confuse them.

 

[D-D-W]

Well Joseph is called the father of Jesus. Jesse really was his father. Its an interesting Jewish story.

Indeed. Our Lord had an angel announce His miraculous birth; but there was no such event with David's birth. Not the same at all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ceremonial uncleanness is Tamay, not chatah. Tamay is not sinful. Chatah means sin. Psalm 51.5 uses chatah, not tamay. Don't confuse them.

I'm not confusing anything. I understand that ceremonial uncleanness in and of itself is not necessarily sinful, and that it keeps you at a distance from the Lord. What makes you ceremonial unclean is what may or may not be sinful. I was making the point that the action of child birth is not sin, but that it does make the mother ceremonially unclean and, thus, unfit and disqualified to approach the Lord.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, the dog who poops on your prize persian rug is not committing inquity. They are not making moral
choices.

That doesn't make what he did any less sinful. The matter of whether or not the dog is to be held accountable and punished for doing that is what develops over time. But it's always a sin to poop where he's not supposed to. He is by nature, from birth, going to poop where he's not supposed to. We all will, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

It's authority over you has died. Like a deceased husband who no longer has the authority by force of law to make you do what he commands you to do. That doesn't mean we won't still ignorantly or fearfully cave into the demands of now deceased husband, 'flesh'.

The better we understand that our old husband 'flesh' no longer has marital authority over us to make us do what he commands the more likely we are to resist his voice from the grave trying to assert an authority he no longer has over us by reason of his death. We are to reckon him dead. That means 'talk to hand, dead husband. You no longer have the force of law over me to make me do what you want, 'cause you're dead. And close the door on your way out.'

 

[GodsGrace]

And that is the definition. Any thought, word or deed that misses the mark of God's will and glory.

Both the Hebrew and Greek words agree on that point, I take that as the definition. I have heard (and it makes sense) that prior to the early English translations of the bible, "sin" was also an archery term meaning to miss the target. Probably from the Latin sine, meaning "without."

This would make an interesting thread.