A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[Paul E. Michael]

I have,

False.

but not the way you want me to.

LOL

And what way is that? Show me how you would answer the questions I asked you if you were going to answer them the way you say I "want" you to.

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

[Does God make] the thing formed say to Him that formed it, "Why hast thou made me thus?" [Yes or No?]

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

Is the potter putting those words into the clay's mouth, then? [Yes or No?]

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

And if so, then what's the difference between "Why hast thou made me thus?" and "Thus saith the LORD"?

 

[Hopeful]

This is a big problem for many reformed.
Some leave Christianity altogether because they're never sure whether or not they're one of the elect.
The teaching is that if they continue in a life without sin, it's a sign of being chosen by God...
but if they sin - what does that mean?
That they are not of the chosen?

Isn't that the proof in deed?
If one is still murdering, stealing, committing adultery, or a thousand other things those in the Spirit are not to do, are they "in Christ"?
NO !

One of the top 2, can't remember which, Piper or MacArthur, told a sobbing girl that if she didn't feel saved, then she most probably wasn't.
Nice.

Feelings have nothing to do with it.
Our actions will determine our fate.

 

[Hopeful]

The man "Didn't want to hear" a message that wouldn't arrive until 50 years after he died ... that is your position. So the Native Americans living in the First Century would have just lived 1500 years if they really wanted to hear a message from God.

Thanks, I needed that laugh.

God doesn't ignore those who will serve Him.
Had Montezuma, some year 8 Chinese guy, or some year 25 pygmy in Africa wanted to serve God, God won't ignore him.
If some Chinese guy wants to hear, and please God, today, the message will get to him.

 

[atpollard]

Too bad they ask Piper or MacArhtur instead of you...(can't remember which one I heard - it was a Question and answer forum).

If she was a Seminary student where he was lecturing and asking that question, then he may have a point. I mean if a new convert asks, its one thing. If your Pastor asks ... That's something different.

 

[brightfame52]

False.

LOL

And what way is that? Show me how you would answer the questions I asked you if you were going to answer them the way you say I "want" you to.

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

How do I (according to you) "want" you to answer this question:

Already made statements, read.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Already made statements, read.

I know. I read what you wrote. Which is why, as you and I both know very well, it is obvious that you have not answered the questions I asked you.

 

[brightfame52]

I know. I read what you wrote. Which is why, as you and I both know very well, it is obvious that you have not answered the questions I asked you.

Then you dont understand my explanations.

 

[JLB]

So you are not one of the Elect.

What would give you that impression.

I believe I am joined to the Elect One, and am one spirit with Him.


All who are in Christ the Elect One are the elect.


Can you post a scripture from the New Testament that refers to the elect, that is not referring to the Jewish people.



Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Romans 11:5-7



Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
2 Peter 1:10




JLB

 

[atpollard]

What would give you that impression.

Your claiming that the ELECT are the Israelites and I was wrong for misquoting Romans 9 (even though I had not mentioned Romans at all) gave the impression that YOU were not an Israelite and, therefore, not one of the ELECT by YOUR definition.

Since you now claim you ARE one of the ELECT … your post didn’t answer the question that I actually asked about the ELECT. You just took an opportunity to tell me that I was wrong about Romans 9 when I said nothing about Romans 9.

That makes your post both confusing and worthless to me.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Then you dont understand my explanations.

LOL

Nice try. What you asininely refer to by your phrase, "my explanations", are your evasions. Get real.

 

[atpollard]

Can you post a scripture from the New Testament that refers to the elect, that is not referring to the Jewish people.

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Come back when you decide whether gentiles are the elect or not.

 

[Hopeful]

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Come back when you decide whether gentiles are the elect or not.

All who elect to serve God are "the elect".

 

[JLB]

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Come back when you decide whether gentiles are the elect or not.

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


Does the elect refer to Jews or Gentiles in this passage?

 

[brightfame52]

What would give you that impression.

I believe I am joined to the Elect One, and am one spirit with Him.


All who are in Christ the Elect One are the elect.


Can you post a scripture from the New Testament that refers to the elect, that is not referring to the Jewish people.



Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Romans 11:5-7



Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
2 Peter 1:10




JLB

Everyone Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world is Gods Elect, and that includes Gentiles Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And the Chosen are Gods Elect Mark 13:20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 

[brightfame52]

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


Does the elect refer to Jews or Gentiles in this passage?

Both, but mainly Gentiles because he [Paul] was specifically sent to preach to them, and he endured much persecution from fellow jews because of it. 2 Tim 1:11

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 4:17

Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

 

[brightfame52]

LOL

Nice try. What you asininely refer to by your phrase, "my explanations", are your evasions. Get real.

You really not making sense and wasting your time. The things I have explained, you dont understand, but then you want me to explain things to you.

 

[atpollard]

All who elect to serve God are "the elect".

THIS was the question ...

Since "ELECT" is a Biblical term and not something that Reformed Theologians invented, How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

So if you really want to answer for wondering , the question is ...

How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

 

[atpollard]

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

Does the elect refer to Jews or Gentiles in this passage?

THIS was the question ...

Since "ELECT" is a Biblical term and not something that Reformed Theologians invented, How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

So if you really want to answer for wondering , the question is ...

How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

 

[JLB]

How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

The Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am His child.

I am therefore a Jew inwardly.

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
Romans 8:16

 

[JLB]

THIS was the question ...


So if you really want to answer for wondering , the question is ...

How are YOU SURE that you are one of the Elect?

Who does elect refer to in this passage?

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10