An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.

[JLB]

Then exactly, Tulip is the Gospel, you reject it, you reject Gods Gospel, which is to reject God

Why in the world would any Christian say that a man made acronym such as TULIP, that doesn't appear in scripture is "The Gospel"?

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Unity adherence to His teachings are essential for the growth and edification of the body of believers.

Christ Himself says that adherence to His teachings are essential to salvation.

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11


Shall I provide an example?




JLB

 

[JLB]

What is the heresy?

The doctrine that a person is born again, regenerated, saved before they ever hear and believe the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ.

Believing [obeying] the Gospel is how we are saved, born again, regenerated.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Paul says it this way -

• how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:13-14


Please explain to us how a person is born again without ever hearing of Jesus Christ?


Salvation without hearing and believing in Christ Jesus and His work on the cross is a "Christ-less" salvation.


It's another gospel.

It's Heresy.


Those who promote heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's important to clarify, to you, that Calvinism is rooted in biblical interpretation rather than being solely a human construct.

Do you believe a person can be saved without ever hearing of Jesus Christ?

 

[brightfame52]

Why in the world would any Christian say that a man made acronym such as TULIP, that doesn't appear in scripture is "The Gospel"?

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?



JLB

Tulip isn't man made it is the Gospel of God

 

[JLB]

Tulip isn't man made it is the Gospel of God

It may be your Gospel, but it's certainly not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?

 

[Iconoclast]

It may be your Gospel, but it's certainly not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?

The term is in the same place as the word trinity.It is right next to it.On the other side of it is the term rapture. You never use either of those words right? While we are playing this little word game, can you find where the Apostles posted or used the word LOVE in the book of acts?

 

[GodsGrace]

It may be your Gospel, but it's certainly not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?

Amen.
Total Depravity is NOT a concept found in the OT or in the NT.

To the reformed Total Depravity means that every part of a human being is so depraved that it is impossible for a person to seek God.

Since there are MANY many verses of God COMMANDING us to seek Him, this concept is clearly incorrect and is not the gospel of Jesus.
2 Chronicles 7:14
and if My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.



Acts 17:27-31
25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’
29“Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.
30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”


The gospel Jesus left us with is full of hope.
He redeemed humanity.
And we have the CAPABILITY of seeking Him and His good news.
The Good News is that we could be saved by following His teachings,,,,His gospel.
John 3:16 For God so loved THE WORLD....


Romans 1:16
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Mark 16:15
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.


It seems to me that Mark 16:15 includes everyone in all of creation.
I believe Jesus stated what He meant.


This good news does not exist in the reformed theology since it is God, due to man's INABILITY to seek Him, that requires God to choose who will be saved. Let alone the fact that they believe man does not have free will.
Two teachings that necessarily must twist the word of God to accommodate incorrect theology which did not even exist till 1,500 years after Jesus.

An idea that is unknown to a merciful and loving God that loves all of His creation and that so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that WHOEVER will believe in Him will be saved and will not be damned.

 

[Iconoclast]

Most error comes from a wrong view of Adam's fall into sin and death.When people deny these truths ,they cannot get the Bible correct.
They offer error instead and fabrication. A religious quilt of leaves to cover their theological ignorance.This is followed by attacks upon the truth of God's word, and God's people who know the word as it has been written. Only new birth can generate such darkness.

 

[JLB]

The term is in the same place as the word trinity.It is right next to it.On the other side of it is the term rapture. You never use either of those words right? While we are playing this little word game, can you find where the Apostles posted or used the word LOVE in the book of acts?

I don't use the term Trinity.

I have learned to use the words of scripture, when discussing controversial subjects where there is disagreement.

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are Totally Depraved?

 

[JLB]

Most error comes from a wrong view of Adam's fall into sin and death.When people deny these truths ,they cannot get the Bible correct.
They offer error instead and fabrication. A religious quilt of leaves to cover their theological ignorance.This is followed by attacks upon the truth of God's word, and God's people who know the word as it has been written. Only new birth can generate such darkness.

Most error is promoted because the words of Jesus Christ are ignored in favor of the teachings and commandments of men.

• Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ Mark 7:6-7

 

[brightfame52]

It may be your Gospel, but it's certainly not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please post the passage of Scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term Total Depravity?

Do you believe you as a born again Christian are totally depraved?

Its Gods Gospel, and I dont need a passage that uses the term total depravity.

 

[GodsGrace]

Tulipbee

part 2 of 2

To address your other inquiries:

1. **Arminius and Reformed Theology**: Arminius was initially part of the Reformed tradition but later diverged from some key Calvinist doctrines, giving rise to Arminianism as a distinct theological perspective.

Of course. He realized it was wrong.

2. **Believers Before Calvin and Arminius**: Before figures like Calvin and Arminius, believers held various theological perspectives influenced by the interpretations prevalent during their time. The diversity of beliefs among early Christians reflects the dynamic nature of theological discourse throughout history.

Could you list some of the beliefs that agree with Calvinism by those that knew an Apostle or one of the Apostles students?

3. **Augustine and Calvinism**: Augustine's writings, particularly on topics like predestination and grace, have influenced Calvinist theology. His emphasis on God's sovereignty and human depravity aligns closely with Calvinist doctrines.

Agreed. But h e was the only one.
See above.
And 300 years after Jesus and the founding of the Christian faith.

4. **Existence of Reformed Theology**: Reformed theology, including Calvinism, existed before the Reformation in the teachings of early church fathers like Augustine. The formal articulation of these beliefs during the Reformation period was a response to theological challenges and the need for doctrinal clarity.

Most theologians would put the ECFs at BEFORE 325AD, before the Nicene Creed.

5. **Heresy and Biblical Teaching**: According to Scripture, teachings that deviate from foundational truths revealed in the Bible may be considered heretical. For example, doctrines that compromise the sovereignty of God in salvation or deny the sufficiency of Christ's atonement could be deemed heretical. Verses like Galatians 1:8-9 warn against false teachings that contradict the gospel.

No. A heresy is a belief system that does not agree with MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY.
Since the reformed are the ONLY denomination to believe as they do and the rest of Christianity does not agree with them...THEY are following heretical teachings.

6. **Calvinism and Biblical Foundation**: Calvinism is grounded in careful interpretation of Scripture rather than being solely a human invention. The theological principles of Calvinism, such as God's sovereignty and humanity's depravity, find support in numerous biblical passages. The Reformation period provided an opportunity for the formalization and systematization of these beliefs in response to theological challenges of the time.

Those passages are misunderstood, twisted to fit Calvinist theology and cause many conflicts within scripture.
I've addressed those conflicts many times with no satisfactory solution by the reformed.

In conclusion, Calvinism, like other theological perspectives, seeks to honor God's Word and uphold biblical truths. It is rooted in Scripture and has been shaped by centuries of theological reflection and interpretation within the Christian tradition.

If all of the reformation believed in predestination,
why have all the denominations that survived and are present to this day, why have they abandoned those teachings?
Because they cannot be conformed to a merciful and loving God Who wishes that All be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4

Please inform me if I addressed all of your statements and inquiries.

Yes. Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its Gods Gospel, and I dont need a passage that uses the term total depravity.

If it's God's gospel, why don't the other denominations agree with the reformed?

Could it be that all other theologians are dumb and only the reformed have any intelligence at all?

 

[GodsGrace]

If anyone believes they had anything to do with their salvation, they do not believe God is sovereign.

That's a very weak and helpless God you believe in.

The way I understand God to be....

NOTHING can diminish Him.

Apparently you think God can be diminished.

Could you show verses that claim man has no free will?
Shouldn't scripture clearly state that it is God that chooses WHO will be saved?

 

[brightfame52]

GodsGrace

Could you show verses that claim man has no free will?

Do these people here Jesus speaks of have a freewill to believe on Him ? John 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace



Do these people here Jesus speaks of have a freewill to believe on Him ? John 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Why would God blind persons and harden their heart when they are born TOTALLY DEPRAVED AND DEAD.

See BF, calvinism makes no sense - just like I've been saying all along.

And Fastfredy0 constantly misrepresents me...
how about telling him to stop?
See post 32 in Ordo Salutis.

 

[Tulipbee]

Since you're unable to type exactly what program are you using to post your ideas?
My point is that I dislike speaking to a program.

It is not right for you to constantly question individuals with disabilities about how they use assistive technology, what they use, and why they use it. Doing so can be intrusive, disrespectful, and may violate the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

The ADA prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in various areas, including employment, public accommodations, transportation, and telecommunications. Under the ADA, individuals with disabilities have the right to use assistive technology to facilitate their participation in various activities, including communication, work, education, and daily life.

Questioning individuals with disabilities about their use of assistive technology can be considered a form of harassment or discrimination under the ADA. Such behavior can create a hostile environment and impede the full and equal participation of individuals with disabilities in society.

Instead, it is important to respect the autonomy and privacy of individuals with disabilities regarding their use of assistive technology. If someone requires accommodation or assistance due to a disability, it is appropriate to offer support in a respectful and non-intrusive manner, while also being mindful of their rights and dignity as outlined by the ADA.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is not right for you to constantly question individuals with disabilities about how they use assistive technology, what they use, and why they use it. Doing so can be intrusive, disrespectful, and may violate the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

The ADA prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in various areas, including employment, public accommodations, transportation, and telecommunications. Under the ADA, individuals with disabilities have the right to use assistive technology to facilitate their participation in various activities, including communication, work, education, and daily life.

Questioning individuals with disabilities about their use of assistive technology can be considered a form of harassment or discrimination under the ADA. Such behavior can create a hostile environment and impede the full and equal participation of individuals with disabilities in society.

Instead, it is important to respect the autonomy and privacy of individuals with disabilities regarding their use of assistive technology. If someone requires accommodation or assistance due to a disability, it is appropriate to offer support in a respectful and non-intrusive manner, while also being mindful of their rights and dignity as outlined by the ADA.

OK!

 

[brightfame52]

GodsGrace

Why would God blind persons and harden their heart when they are born TOTALLY DEPRAVED AND DEAD.

Its a Judgment for sin, its sinful to be depraved and dead to God