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Baptism in the Spirit: The experience

If you had the gifts of the Spirit the apostles had, we would see you in mass media News. The "gifts" you have aren't newsworthy at all, nothing like what we see in Scripture:

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)

Nothing like that EVER happens in ANY charismaniac church. Put them all together they wouldn't make a pimple on Peter's a..
Since I was healed in the hospital of an asthma attack when a woman pastor prayed "Jesus, heal this man", I have first person experience that the gifts of the Spirit are clearly functioning in modern times. Your doubt has no effect on the truth of Christ. BTW, I prayed two days later for my prayer language and immediately began speaking in tongues (which I do to this day).

Your unbelief has absolutely no effect on the reality of God's working in this day and age. I feel sorry for you that your faith is weak.

Finally, your references to "charismaniac" and "a pimple on Peter's a." show both your immaturity and crude thinking. I feel sorry for you, since your spiritual state is clearly diseased. Why not ask someone with the appropriate spiritual gift to heal you?
 
Since I was healed in the hospital of an asthma attack when a woman pastor prayed "Jesus, heal this man", I have first person experience that the gifts of the Spirit are clearly functioning in modern times. Your doubt has no effect on the truth of Christ. BTW, I prayed two days later for my prayer language and immediately began speaking in tongues (which I do to this day).
I do not doubt you manifest "something" you believe is the same as the gifts of the Spirit in the NT.

But if your healing or gifts were as spectacular as those seen in the NT, you could refer me to the news where it was reported by the News, both print and TV.

So, they are not the same.

Therefore, lest my thinking or spiritual state be corrupted by inferior supernatural entities, I will have nothing to do with them.

For it is written:

16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people."
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty."
(2 Cor. 6:16-18 NKJ)
 
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If you had the gifts of the Spirit the apostles had, we would see you in mass media News. The "gifts" you have aren't newsworthy at all, nothing like what we see in Scripture:
So, let me get this straight "mass media news" is your arbiter of truth for the things of God ?!? Surely you jest .
Nothing like that EVER happens in ANY charismaniac church. Put them all together they wouldn't make a pimple on Peter's a..
You talk like you have practical knowledge but do you ?
The only thing charismaniacs excel in, is fraud. The Consumer Protection Agency would order them to cease claiming what they do is the same as seen in the NT, if not for the 1st Amendment.

Its like a con man with bags of Monopoly money, claiming its real US Currency.
Here are the questions again , they are not hard questions at all , yet you refused to answer me before .
Have you ever even been inside a Pentecostal church ?
What Pentecostal churches have you attended ?
Was it an "Assemblies Of God " , "Church Of God" or an independent Pentecostal church ?
What were the services like when you went there ?

What have you , Alfred Persson seen in the Pentecostal church services that the Gift of Tongues was in evidence you have attended ?
 
So, let me get this straight "mass media news" is your arbiter of truth for the things of God ?!? Surely you jest .

You talk like you have practical knowledge but do you ?



Here are the questions again , they are not hard questions at all , yet you refused to answer me before .
Have you ever even been inside a Pentecostal church ?
What Pentecostal churches have you attended ?
Was it an "Assemblies Of God " , "Church Of God" or an independent Pentecostal church ?
What were the services like when you went there ?

What have you , Alfred Persson seen in the Pentecostal church services that the Gift of Tongues was in evidence you have attended ?

Media seeks out the sensational, the spectacular, anything that the public is interested in.

If these same Bible miracles signs and wonders tongues etc. (= Continualism) were happening today, it would be reported 24/7 everywhere in mass media and social sites. YOU would post links to all these events, here in reply to me. But you cannot, because Cessationism is true, these things do not happen today::

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)


I was baptized in a Foursquare Pentecostal Church, was a member for a few years. Never saw anything I could call "gifts of the Spirit." What I saw was something else, something disguised as "of God" but not.

Mostly, its "of the flesh", self generated delusion. Some of it, particularly the "glow meetings" were occultic, demonic

Many former charismanic prophets and healers testify to the carnal nature of the entire phenomena. Its egotistical, self-centered and NOT in true Christian service in love for Christ and fellow man.

Of course there are Wheat amongst the Weeds, Christ told us that would happen. They resist their unction, saying to themselves "we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater."

Yes you can, if its a demon or human carnal nature.

So where are the links showing great charismanic apostles and prophets who do actual signs and wonders and don't false prophesy?

There are none, because its all a fraud.
 
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Media seeks out the sensational, the spectacular, anything that the public is interested in.

If these same Bible miracles signs and wonders tongues etc. (= Continualism) were happening today, it would be reported 24/7 everywhere in mass media and social sites. YOU would post links to all these events, here in reply to me. But you cannot, because Cessationism is true, these things do not happen today::

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)


I was baptized in a Foursquare Pentecostal Church, was a member for a few years. Never saw anything I could call "gifts of the Spirit." What I saw was something else, something disguised as "of God" but not.

Mostly, its "of the flesh", self generated delusion. Some of it, particularly the "glow meetings" were occultic, demonic

Many former charismanic prophets and healers testify to the carnal nature of the entire phenomena. Its egotistical, self-centered and NOT in true Christian service in love for Christ and fellow man.

Of course there are Wheat amongst the Weeds, Christ told us that would happen. They resist their unction, saying to themselves "we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater."

Yes you can, if its a demon or human carnal nature.

So where are the links showing great charismanic apostles and prophets who do actual signs and wonders and don't false prophesy?

There are none, because its all a fraud.
I'm so sad you believe that.
Just because something isn't "sensationalized" by the devilish media doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It just might be the proof that it is happening.
 
I was baptized in a Foursquare Pentecostal Church, was a member for a few years. Never saw anything I could call "gifts of the Spirit." What I saw was something else, something disguised as "of God" but not.

Mostly, its "of the flesh", self generated delusion. Some of it, particularly the "glow meetings" were occultic, demonic

Many former charismanic prophets and healers testify to the carnal nature of the entire phenomena. Its egotistical, self-centered and NOT in true Christian service in love for Christ and fellow man.
Thank you so much for the answer to my questions . I understand where you are coming from now .
Where your experience with Pentecostal church was totally contrary to the Word of God .
My experience with Pentecostal church has been in order and lines up with the Word of God .

How I would enjoy sitting down across a table from you and talking face to face .
Don't let the experience with the Foursquare Church keep you from the benefits of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit .
You can call me charismanic , you can say I speak gibberish but I am not going to be mad at you .
 
Media seeks out the sensational, the spectacular, anything that the public is interested in.

If these same Bible miracles signs and wonders tongues etc. (= Continualism) were happening today, it would be reported 24/7 everywhere in mass media and social sites. YOU would post links to all these events, here in reply to me. But you cannot, because Cessationism is true, these things do not happen today::

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)


I was baptized in a Foursquare Pentecostal Church, was a member for a few years. Never saw anything I could call "gifts of the Spirit." What I saw was something else, something disguised as "of God" but not.

Mostly, its "of the flesh", self generated delusion. Some of it, particularly the "glow meetings" were occultic, demonic

Many former charismanic prophets and healers testify to the carnal nature of the entire phenomena. Its egotistical, self-centered and NOT in true Christian service in love for Christ and fellow man.

Of course there are Wheat amongst the Weeds, Christ told us that would happen. They resist their unction, saying to themselves "we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater."

Yes you can, if its a demon or human carnal nature.

So where are the links showing great charismanic apostles and prophets who do actual signs and wonders and don't false prophesy?

There are none, because its all a fraud.
What do you believe?
 
I'm so sad you believe that.
Just because something isn't "sensationalized" by the devilish media doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It just might be the proof that it is happening.

Just as counterfeit money is detected by its inferior printing, paper, ink etc, so also can counterfeit signs and wonders be detected by its inferiority when compared to the real things from God:

Charismaniac signs and wonders are inferior to what we see in Scripture where EVERYONE is healed, even those Peter's shadow fell upon:

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)

Its fraud to claim the counterfeit is genuine.
 
Thank you so much for the answer to my questions . I understand where you are coming from now .
Where your experience with Pentecostal church was totally contrary to the Word of God .
My experience with Pentecostal church has been in order and lines up with the Word of God .

How I would enjoy sitting down across a table from you and talking face to face .
Don't let the experience with the Foursquare Church keep you from the benefits of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit .
You can call me charismanic , you can say I speak gibberish but I am not going to be mad at you .
Not so fast, slick. You can't prove apostolic miracles signs and wonders that we read about in scripture, are happening today. I've asked you for proof and you failed to deliver. Changing the subject to me is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent. Its not about me, its about the FACT no one TODAY can do what Peter did here:

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)
 
What do you believe?
Charismania is the tip of the spear, the beginning of the strong delusion that leads the church into apostasy, so that it receives the "miracle working Man of Sin" as the Christ.

Charismania leads people away from obedience to scripture, into obeying their own experiences. Its a slow process, but after a time all ability to critically evaluate the supernatural by objective tests, is lost. Delusion wins:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:9-12
NKJ)

The man of sin will do real miracles signs and wonders. But his teaching will be apostate. But the weeds among the wheat will rejoice, because they have already been trained to ignore the differences in what they do, and what happened in scripture.

The "lying wonders" the Lawless One does won't be "counterfeit", they are "lying" because they "authenticate the false gospel of the antichrist."

But by then
charismaniacs will rejoice, because they will see genuine signs and wonders as proof the Bible is not to be obeyed.

Then my argument against fraud will be turned on its head, and the "real miracles" of the Antichrist used to discredit all who still obey God's Truth the Bible.

The Lawless One will deceive Charismaniacs, because they have been misled to believe its impossible God allow Satan work real signs and wonders to deceive.

They believe that because they ignore this Bible text:

1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying,`Let us go after other gods'-- which you have not known--`and let us serve them,'
3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. (Deut. 13:1-4 NKJ)
 
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Charismania is the tip of the spear, the beginning of the strong delusion that leads the church into apostasy, so that it receives the "miracle working Man of Sin" as the Christ.

Charismania leads people away from obedience to scripture, into obeying their own experiences. Its a slow process, but after a time all ability to critically evaluate the supernatural by objective tests, is lost. Delusion wins:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:9-12
NKJ)

The man of sin will do real miracles signs and wonders. But his teaching will be apostate. But the weeds among the wheat will rejoice, because they have already been trained to ignore the differences in what they do, and what happened in scripture.

The "lying wonders" the Lawless One does won't be "counterfeit", they are "lying" because they "authenticate the false gospel of the antichrist."

But by then
charismaniacs will rejoice, because they will see genuine signs and wonders as proof the Bible is not to be obeyed.

Then my argument against fraud will be turned on its head, and the "real miracles" of the Antichrist used to discredit all who still obey God's Truth the Bible.

The Lawless One will deceive Charismaniacs, because they have been misled to believe its impossible God allow Satan work real signs and wonders to deceive.

They believe that because they ignore this Bible text:

1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying,`Let us go after other gods'-- which you have not known--`and let us serve them,'
3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. (Deut. 13:1-4 NKJ)
Are you saying tongues is of the devil (the man of sin)?
 
Are you saying tongues is of the devil (the man of sin)?
When Christians speak tongues its self-generated delusion.

Passage from Dr. John R. Rice's excellent book, The Charismatic Movement, on pages 136-139:
Some Christians talk in tongues. So do some Mormons, some devil-possessed spiritists, heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues. It is not of itself necessarily of God.

In his book, New Testament Teaching on Tongues, Dr. Merrill Unger calls attention to this fact, on pages 163-165:

That tongues can be and are counterfeited by demon spirits is evidenced by the fact that spiritistic mediums. Muslim dervishes, and Indian fakirs speak in tongues. It must be remembered by those who try to make tongues a badge of spirituality or a status symbol of saints who have attained the height of spiritual experience, that speaking in tongues and their interpretation are not peculiar to the Christian church but are common in ancient pagan religions and in spiritism both ancient and modern.

The very phrase "to speak with tongues" (Greek glosais lalein, Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19-6; 1st Cor. 12-14; cf. Mark 16:17) was not invented by New Testament writers, but borrowed from the ordinary speech of pagans. Plato's attitude toward the enthusiastic ecstasies of the ancient soothsayer (mantis, diviner,) recalls the Apostle Paul's attitude toward Glossolalia among the Corinthian believers.

Virgil graphically describes the ancient pagan prophetess "speaking with tongues." He depicts her disheveled hair, her panting breast, her change of color, and her apparent increase in stature at the god (demon) came upon her and filled her with this supernatural afflatus. Then her voice loses its mortal ring as the god (demon) speaks through her, as in ancient and modern necromancy (spiritism).

Phenomena of this type are common among savages and pagan peoples of lower culture. Ecstatic utterances interpreted by a person in a sane state of mind have been verified, In the Sandwich Islands, for example, the god Oro gave his oracles through a priest who "ceased to act or speak as a voluntary agent, but with his limbs convulsed, his features distorted and terrific, his eyes wild and strained, would roll on the ground foaming at the moth, and reveal the will of the god in shrill cries and sounds violent and indistinct, which the attending priests duly interpreted to the people."

So, intelligent and concerned people will want to find out what is of God and what is of evil spirits.
The matter is so important, let me call to the witness stand again the assistant professor in Grace Theological Seminary, Dr. Charles R. Smith. He says on pages 20-22 of his book, Tongues in Biblical Perspective:

IN NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.--Tongues occupied a significant place in ancient Greek religion. The seeress at Delphi, not far from Corinth, spoke in tongues. According to Plutarch (A.D. 44-117), interpreters were kept in attendance to explain her incoherent utterances. Many scholars have stated that tongues were experienced in the mystery religions (Osirius, Mithra, Eleusinian, Dionsyian, and Orphic cults). Some have concluded that the unintelligible lists of "words" in the "magical papyri" and in certain Gnostic "prayers" are records of ecstatic utterances. About A.D. 180 Celsus reported ecstatic utterances among the Gnostics. Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) described tongues speaking as it was practiced by the devotees of the Syrian goddess, Juno.

Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priest have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues. According to his own account, after his ecstatic experiences he found it difficult to return to "logical and intelligible speech" (Kelsey, p. 143).

IN MENTAL ILLNESS.--The fact hat nonreligious tongues speaking often occurs in association with certain mental illnesses is well documented. Psychiatrists have reported it in association with schizophrenia, neurosis, and psychosis. Probably all psychiatrists and psychologists are aware of the possibility of psychic damage resulting from tongues speaking (Kelsey, p.227). It was reported that following the extended tongues meeting held by Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Church of the Foursquare Gospel, mental institutions in the area of her meeting were overburdened. The Episcopalian church financed a study commission which concluded that tongues are "not per se a religious phenomenon" and may appear among those "who are suffering from mental disorders as schizophrenia and hysteria" (Jennings, p.11)

IN SPIRITISM.--Tongues speaking occurs among anti-Christian spiritistic mediums. Contrary to popular belief among tongues speakers, a few years ago the European Pentecostal Conference admitted that "tongues might occur apart from the Spirit's action" (Brown, p.151)

IN THE DEMON POSSESSED.--Even Pentecostal authors grant that there are cases where demonic influence is apparently responsible for tongues utterances. Some feel that this is why "the gift of discernment of spirits" is necessary.

Again on page 38 Dr. Smith says:

In extra biblical literature this word was used to describe the "inspired" utterances of diviners. Moulton and Milligan cite three occurrences of the word in Vettius Valens where it designates irrational or unintelligible speech. It is stated that the speakers' minds had "fallen away," they were overcome with "madness," and they spoke in "ecstasy" (p. 72). Apoptheggomai was almost a technical term for describing the speech of the oracle-givers, diviners, prophets, exorcists, ecstatics, and other "inspired" persons (Kittel, I, 447; Arndt and Gingrich, p. 101). The basic idea is "an unusual utterance by virtue of inspiration." Though the word obviously cannot be limited to unintelligible speech, it is certainly appropriate for such. Its usage in Greek literature, in fact, definitely suggests a connection with ecstatic, often unintelligible, utterances.

If a Mormon talks in tongues with his false religion, is that speaking with tongues the Bible gift of tongues? I think not. If an unconverted Catholic who prays to Mary, confesses to a priest, hopes to get out of purgatory if enough people pay for masses and if he hasn't sinned badly, talks in tongues, is that the Bible gift of tongues? I think not.

Evidently Satan can have people talk in tongues also, and we need to carefully consider that when we talk about the gift of tongues.

End

 
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When Christians speak tongues its self-generated delusion.

Passage from Dr. John R. Rice's excellent book, The Charismatic Movement, on pages 136-139:
Some Christians talk in tongues. So do some Mormons, some devil-possessed spiritists, heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues. It is not of itself necessarily of God.

In his book, New Testament Teaching on Tongues, Dr. Merrill Unger calls attention to this fact, on pages 163-165:

That tongues can be and are counterfeited by demon spirits is evidenced by the fact that spiritistic mediums. Muslim dervishes, and Indian fakirs speak in tongues. It must be remembered by those who try to make tongues a badge of spirituality or a status symbol of saints who have attained the height of spiritual experience, that speaking in tongues and their interpretation are not peculiar to the Christian church but are common in ancient pagan religions and in spiritism both ancient and modern.

The very phrase "to speak with tongues" (Greek glosais lalein, Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19-6; 1st Cor. 12-14; cf. Mark 16:17) was not invented by New Testament writers, but borrowed from the ordinary speech of pagans. Plato's attitude toward the enthusiastic ecstasies of the ancient soothsayer (mantis, diviner,) recalls the Apostle Paul's attitude toward Glossolalia among the Corinthian believers.

Virgil graphically describes the ancient pagan prophetess "speaking with tongues." He depicts her disheveled hair, her panting breast, her change of color, and her apparent increase in stature at the god (demon) came upon her and filled her with this supernatural afflatus. Then her voice loses its mortal ring as the god (demon) speaks through her, as in ancient and modern necromancy (spiritism).

Phenomena of this type are common among savages and pagan peoples of lower culture. Ecstatic utterances interpreted by a person in a sane state of mind have been verified, In the Sandwich Islands, for example, the god Oro gave his oracles through a priest who "ceased to act or speak as a voluntary agent, but with his limbs convulsed, his features distorted and terrific, his eyes wild and strained, would roll on the ground foaming at the moth, and reveal the will of the god in shrill cries and sounds violent and indistinct, which the attending priests duly interpreted to the people."

So, intelligent and concerned people will want to find out what is of God and what is of evil spirits.
The matter is so important, let me call to the witness stand again the assistant professor in Grace Theological Seminary, Dr. Charles R. Smith. He says on pages 20-22 of his book, Tongues in Biblical Perspective:

IN NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.--Tongues occupied a significant place in ancient Greek religion. The seeress at Delphi, not far from Corinth, spoke in tongues. According to Plutarch (A.D. 44-117), interpreters were kept in attendance to explain her incoherent utterances. Many scholars have stated that tongues were experienced in the mystery religions (Osirius, Mithra, Eleusinian, Dionsyian, and Orphic cults). Some have concluded that the unintelligible lists of "words" in the "magical papyri" and in certain Gnostic "prayers" are records of ecstatic utterances. About A.D. 180 Celsus reported ecstatic utterances among the Gnostics. Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) described tongues speaking as it was practiced by the devotees of the Syrian goddess, Juno.

Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priest have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues. According to his own account, after his ecstatic experiences he found it difficult to return to "logical and intelligible speech" (Kelsey, p. 143).

IN MENTAL ILLNESS.--The fact hat nonreligious tongues speaking often occurs in association with certain mental illnesses is well documented. Psychiatrists have reported it in association with schizophrenia, neurosis, and psychosis. Probably all psychiatrists and psychologists are aware of the possibility of psychic damage resulting from tongues speaking (Kelsey, p.227). It was reported that following the extended tongues meeting held by Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Church of the Foursquare Gospel, mental institutions in the area of her meeting were overburdened. The Episcopalian church financed a study commission which concluded that tongues are "not per se a religious phenomenon" and may appear among those "who are suffering from mental disorders as schizophrenia and hysteria" (Jennings, p.11)

IN SPIRITISM.--Tongues speaking occurs among anti-Christian spiritistic mediums. Contrary to popular belief among tongues speakers, a few years ago the European Pentecostal Conference admitted that "tongues might occur apart from the Spirit's action" (Brown, p.151)

IN THE DEMON POSSESSED.--Even Pentecostal authors grant that there are cases where demonic influence is apparently responsible for tongues utterances. Some feel that this is why "the gift of discernment of spirits" is necessary.

Again on page 38 Dr. Smith says:

In extra biblical literature this word was used to describe the "inspired" utterances of diviners. Moulton and Milligan cite three occurrences of the word in Vettius Valens where it designates irrational or unintelligible speech. It is stated that the speakers' minds had "fallen away," they were overcome with "madness," and they spoke in "ecstasy" (p. 72). Apoptheggomai was almost a technical term for describing the speech of the oracle-givers, diviners, prophets, exorcists, ecstatics, and other "inspired" persons (Kittel, I, 447; Arndt and Gingrich, p. 101). The basic idea is "an unusual utterance by virtue of inspiration." Though the word obviously cannot be limited to unintelligible speech, it is certainly appropriate for such. Its usage in Greek literature, in fact, definitely suggests a connection with ecstatic, often unintelligible, utterances.

If a Mormon talks in tongues with his false religion, is that speaking with tongues the Bible gift of tongues? I think not. If an unconverted Catholic who prays to Mary, confesses to a priest, hopes to get out of purgatory if enough people pay for masses and if he hasn't sinned badly, talks in tongues, is that the Bible gift of tongues? I think not.

Evidently Satan can have people talk in tongues also, and we need to carefully consider that when we talk about the gift of tongues.

End

You need to get your understanding from the Word of God. Not men.
 
You need to get your understanding from the Word of God. Not men.
Not everyone who calls themselves Christian are children of God:

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! (Matt. 13:24-43 NKJ)


34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 13:34-35 NKJ)
 
Mark 16
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Alfred Persson I have one question for you are you part of this group mentioned above in verse 17 ?
Them that believe

It is a yes or no question my friend . If you see it some other way I will have my answer .
 
God the Holy Spirit has been with me continually for over 40 years. I know objectively it is He who is in me, because the test of Scripture proves it:

We are of God. He who knows God hears us
; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 Jn. 4:6 NKJ)

Satan cannot inspire obedience to scripture, that is the equivalent of Satan casting out Satan (Mk. 2:23-26). Therefore, obedience to the Scripture is THE objective proof God the Holy Spirit is within.

This is how the Wheat and the Weeds can be distinguished, obedience to scripture reveals which are Christian wheat and disobedience the antichrist weeds.

Notice the contrast, the antithesis. Verses 9-12 refer to those inspired by the spirit of antichrist, a spirit which assumes the guise of Christ to oppose Christ. Verses 13-16 refer to those being sanctified by the genuine Spirit of Christ, inspired to love and obey God's Truth in the Bible:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,
17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.
(2 Thess. 2:9-17 NKJ)

There is a reason Paul groups the weeds and wheat in this antithesis.

In the End Time the church will be overrun by weeds, and the great falling away will come. The weeds will separate themselves from the wheat (cp. 1 John 2:18-19), despising them for their obedience to the Scripture. And they will receive the "man of sin" the false Christ, as Christ....which starts the end time clock of 7 years ticking.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(2 Thess. 2:3-4 NKJ)

Many Christian expositors miss two titles are given to the antichrist, "Man of Sin" and "Son of Destruction". This is because he appears as False Christ first, then "mid week" morphs into the "seed of Satan" (Gen. 3:15) Son of Destruction.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Dan. 9:27 NKJ)

 
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Mark 16
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Alfred Persson I have one question for you are you part of this group mentioned above in verse 17 ?
Them that believe

It is a yes or no question my friend . If you see it some other way I will have my answer .
The disciples fulfilled that prophecy in the 1st century, on the Day of Pentecost and shortly after just as the book of Acts records. It does not apply to anyone after them:

And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:20 NKJ)
 
Mark 16
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Alfred Persson I have one question for you are you part of this group mentioned above in verse 17 ?
Them that believe

It is a yes or no question my friend . If you see it some other way I will have my answer .
Nope, neither are you. You ignored my answer. That PROPHECY was fulfilled by THEM THAT BELIEVE (the disciples) in the first century, on the Day of Pentecost and in later AS RECORDED in the Book of Acts:

17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:17-1:1 NKJ)

The Lord had spoken to THEM who believe, and THEY went out. The Lord fulfilling the prophecy working with THEM, confirming the word by the accompanying signs...

Not you or me. We weren't there.
 
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Nope, neither are you. You ignored my answer. That PROPHECY was fulfilled by THEM THAT BELIEVE (the disciples) in the first century, on the Day of Pentecost and in later AS RECORDED in the Book of Acts:

17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:17-1:1 NKJ)

The Lord had spoken to THEM who believe, and THEY went out. The Lord fulfilling the prophecy working with THEM, confirming the word by the accompanying signs...

Not you or me. We weren't there.
Let's look at this verse closely .

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

If it as you say only for the apostles , why did not say so ?
Why didn't it say , "And these signs shall follow you " meaning the apostles . ?
Why didn't it say , "And these signs shall follow my disciples " ?
Why didn't it say, "And these signs shall follow my apostles " ?

Since you are having trouble understanding the KJV, here is another translation of Mark16:17
Contemporary English Version
Everyone who believes me will be able to do wonderful things. By using my name they will force out demons, and they will speak new languages.

EVERYONE

Good News Translation
Believers will be given the power to perform miracles: they will drive out demons in my name; they will speak in strange tongues;

Believers
 
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