MacArthur may be a recognized scholar but he is not infallible. Only the Bible is infallible.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Baptism in the Spirit: The experience
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
MacArthur may be a recognized scholar but he is not infallible. Only the Bible is infallible.
He asked why I would need to pray in my own language in church? I thought this was a strange question but I used these passages to point out that the important thing in a worship service is that people can understand what you are saying. When I speak of praying in a worship service I am referring to the person leading the prayer. That is why there must be understanding. If you are quietly praying to your self it dont matter what you do. God knows what you are going to say before you say it.
I can talk about praying in tongues and here are things I have noticed when I do pray in tongues .
My prayer tongue as best as I can tell is always the same language . I do of course hear wide variety of different words and phrases as I pray in tongues . Since it is a private prayer I do not look for someone to interpretate my words .
Although there are two names I hear the Holy Spirit say regularly and they are Eli and Allah .
Amen !
I agree ! Imagine you are an auto tech and all you have in your toolbox is a crescent wrench , a pair of slip joint pliers and couple of screwdrivers, your repair capabilities would be limited, he is not well equipped . Now the same auto tech with a roll around tool chest with multiple rachets and socket sets of all sizes and impact wrenches , open end wrenches , etc. The well equipped tech can get the job done .
A Christian with the Gift's of The Spirit is better equipped to do the Fathers will here on earth .
Funny you should say Baptist . I have a story for you .
Some years back I was playing music in band and two of the band members knew I was pentecostal , so they asked about speaking in tongues . I wondered where this conversation was going
.Both of my fellow band mates were Baptists and most Baptist church's in my area forbid tongues in their church's .
Both of my band mates told me how they had to come to learning about tongues in a practical sense
.Their stories were almost just alike . They both told of how they were alone praying to God and asking " Is there something more that I can have ! " They knew in their hearts there was more of God for them .
Both of them told me of receiving the Gift of tongues while they were praying alone ! The joy they describing it retelling what happened to them lifted my spirits too !
Both of my friends had spent time behind the pulpit preaching God's word so they were well versed in God's word . They understood the Gift of Tongues !
Walpole
Member
Do you even know what you are saying when you are speaking in tongues? If not, how do you know it's not something inappropriate?
Walpole
Member
Can you even interpret what you are saying? How do you know what you are saying isn't something offensive?
I could if I had the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues . 1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
As the Spirit gives the utterance . The Holy Spirit is the one speaking using my ability to vocalize the words . No chance for anything offensive .
He explained why the Bible texts read as they do. Neither he or I say that explanation is infallible, but I agree with him it makes sense in the context of the times. THAT invalidates the misuse of the Samaritan's to prove a subsequent baptism experience after saving belief. The event does not contradict the clear teaching of scripture there is only One baptism into the one body by the one Spirit all receive when they believe.
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, (Eph. 4:3-14 NKJ)
The 120 apostles and prophets specially chosen by Christ were the "gifts (Christ gave) to men" the church, so that false teachers could not cause divisions in the One body of Christ by teaching different baptisms and making Christians feel inferior because when the Holy Spirit baptized them, the miracle of a changed spirit and heart were all they experienced.
That is precisely the same conversion experience of all on the Day of Pentecost.
But the 120 "received grace according to the" job Christ was equipping them for, and these founding apostles and prophets established Christianity by Christ's direct appointment.
No one today can do what they did. No one today receives the grace they received. Only the twelve did the signs of an apostle:
Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. (Acts 2:43 NKJ)
The born again experience on the Day of Pentecost, the day of Maximum Manifestation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, was a changed heart, love for God and His Truth and His people. They were in awe of God.
The 3000 did NOT feel anything in their flesh, body or brain. They knew in their spirit, in their conscience, that God was now their Abba Father:
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:44-47 NKJ)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
(Rom. 8:14-16 NKJ)
God's children know Christ's voice, and they follow him. They do not follow those who claim to do miracles only the apostles do, but clearly are frauds because Nothing they do today is even remotely as powerful as what we see in the Bible.
What are called "signs and wonders" today are FRAUDS, different, poorly done "counterfeits" of the genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit.
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, (Eph. 4:3-14 NKJ)
The 120 apostles and prophets specially chosen by Christ were the "gifts (Christ gave) to men" the church, so that false teachers could not cause divisions in the One body of Christ by teaching different baptisms and making Christians feel inferior because when the Holy Spirit baptized them, the miracle of a changed spirit and heart were all they experienced.
That is precisely the same conversion experience of all on the Day of Pentecost.
But the 120 "received grace according to the" job Christ was equipping them for, and these founding apostles and prophets established Christianity by Christ's direct appointment.
No one today can do what they did. No one today receives the grace they received. Only the twelve did the signs of an apostle:
Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. (Acts 2:43 NKJ)
The born again experience on the Day of Pentecost, the day of Maximum Manifestation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, was a changed heart, love for God and His Truth and His people. They were in awe of God.
The 3000 did NOT feel anything in their flesh, body or brain. They knew in their spirit, in their conscience, that God was now their Abba Father:
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:44-47 NKJ)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
(Rom. 8:14-16 NKJ)
God's children know Christ's voice, and they follow him. They do not follow those who claim to do miracles only the apostles do, but clearly are frauds because Nothing they do today is even remotely as powerful as what we see in the Bible.
What are called "signs and wonders" today are FRAUDS, different, poorly done "counterfeits" of the genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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What's your point?
i used that as a illustration as there are Baptist that would not darken a Pentecostal church and there are Pentecostals who will darken a Baptist church . yes there are some things in the Pentecostal doctrine i dont agree with and some things with the baptist . my point is one Lord one faith one baptism ..the one as Christ prayed for us to be in john 17 .
one in him not one universal church . i know plenty Good hearted Pentecostals. i know one ASOG that i have heard preach in a gen Baptist church . to be honest with you other that him mentioning the asog church he was pastor at.. you would never know. ( preach the word)
i have been to a ASOG he preached revival in . once again you would have never known.. yes tongues was used in one of the services. i consider it done decent and in order .one spoke one interpreted.
did i get any thing out of it ? no not really .but still there was no out break with everyone and there g ma speaking in tongues . i figure if God wants to to have the Gift he would give it to me.. yes i know Baptist who speak in tongues . its all good we have our disagreements on scripture.
ughh that should say will not.. but i do know Pentecostals that will go to baptist church
OK, thanks for the input.
I have been praying for different gifts of the Spirit for a long time.
But it is God's gift to give at His bequest.
I seek other gifts, so do not speak in tongues, but I do not think for one moment that a Holy God would fill our mouths with words other than those which bring, blessing, comfort and joy to the listeners.
1 Corinthians 14:14, "If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive." When I pray in tongues, it is a dialogue between the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I have no idea what is being communicated. They are certainly not "words" that can be understood by me.
I feel sorry for you. It's clear that, since you don't have any of the gifts of the Spirit you find it necessary to disparage those of us who have them.
Walpole
Member
Why would God need to use an intermediary such as you to speak to Himself?
Is the Third Person of the Trinity dependent upon you to commune with the Father?
Because He has given me the Holy Spirit to be my guide. It is the Holy Spirit residing in me that communicates with God, just as Jesus, who was/is fully God, prayed to His father. All three are part of the Godhead, yet they communicate with each other. I don't know why God uses me as His "instrument"; why not ask Him?
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Walpole
Member
So God is dependent upon you to communicate within the Persons of the Trinity? I'm sure you are a holy person and all, but I don't quite see how that works from an ontological standpoint.
Land the plane and explain how:
1. The Persons of the Trinity are dependent upon an intermediary to commune within themselves.
2. If God does indeed require a human intermediary, why did He choose YOU of all the people in the world to communicate from one Person of the Trinity to another?
3. Did God ask your permission to use you as a conduit for communication within the Persons of the Godhead?
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If you had the gifts of the Spirit the apostles had, we would see you in mass media News. The "gifts" you have aren't newsworthy at all, nothing like what we see in Scripture:
12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)
Nothing like that EVER happens in ANY charismaniac church. Put them all together they wouldn't make a pimple on Peter's a..