Baptism in the Spirit: The experience

[jaybo]

Being born again has been redefined in modern times from being baptized (what it meant in historical Christianity), to being the point in time when one decides to kick a bad habit, like putting down the bottle, or when one gives up a particular sin.

What is your basis for saying this? John 3 is quite clear: "Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.' The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8

I don't see water baptism here (if that's what you meant), but a spiritual birth. I don't see any reference to licking a bad habit either.

 

[Walpole]

I think teaching like that is Satanically inspired.

It is certainly not biblical. Besides, we are not saved by our own works. Neither can we save ourselves. Neither does being good cleanse us from sin.

Baptism is not a work man does so your point is moot.

When Jesus explained to Nicodemus how a man is born again, He said two things are required. What are those two things?

Hint: They are the two things He experienced at the Jordan River.

 

[Cnkw3]

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?


so this could very well mean the ability to speak in other languages

Its more than “could” very well. It most certainly is the ability to speak a language that they had no training in. Vs 11

i have heard a wide variety of teachings on tongues. my question to you is tongues more important than salvation .

No. I do not believe tongues are still available today. Ive never met anyone that could speak a different language that they didnt have training in. If you say you can do it or you know others that can then so be it. That has no bearing on saved or not saved. Cornelius in acts 10 spoke in tongues. He was not saved at the time.

lets do 2. if one does not speak in tongues is there prayer heard .

Why would it matter?

compared to the one wo prays in tongues

Why would you pray in tongues?

Jude says buiding yourself up in your most holy faith praying in the Holy ghost" my paraphrase i pray as the spirit leads me that is my praying in the Holyghost

I dont disagree with that, but If someone wants to say that “praying in the HG” is tongues I would then disagree.

 

[Cnkw3]

What is it about "Until you can discuss the issue I won't continue this conversation" that you can't understand?

Because you are condescending and I dont much care for that. You will know them by their fruit.

 

[Walpole]

What is your basis for saying this? John 3 is quite clear: "Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.' The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8

I don't see water baptism here (if that's what you meant), but a spiritual birth. I don't see any reference to licking a bad habit either.

You don't see WATER and the SPIRIT in the verse you quoted? (You even bolded it!)

Christians call this act by which man receives water and the spirit baptism. When Jesus was baptized, He entered the water and the Spirit came upon Him.

Incidentally, lest there be any doubt about what Jesus told Nicodemus, immediately after this encounter, St. John tells us Jesus and the Apostles baptize and even puts the setting in Aenon!

 

[jaybo]

Because you are condescending and I dont much care for that. You will know them by their fruit.

You're still not discussing the issue! Amazing!

 

[Hopeful]

how do you figure Jesus failed ? he was complete perfect w/o sin we dont reach full completeness /perfection till we finish the race on earth fully sanctified till that time we are a work in progress grow in the grace and knowledge

He didn't fail, He allowed us to reborn as the perfect fruit of the seed of God.
From that rebirth, we grow in grace and knowledge.

 

[Hopeful]

ok so we rip out sin not if we do we have a advocate .my bad i must get a new Bible . back to beating the dead horse he just wont get up.. just like this post is like a mule looking at a new gate wondering where it come from..

How often do you feel you are going to prevail upon the Advocate until you actually do start to obey Him?
Some only do it once, and obey from that starting point.

 

[Cooper]

Baptism is not a work man does so your point is moot.

When Jesus explained to Nicodemus how a man is born again, He said two things are required. What are those two things?

Hint: They are the two things He experienced at the Jordan River.

What is this, a scripture exam?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 3:3

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Joh 3:5 KJV)

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 7:24-25​

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King James Version​

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24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
No more "body of this death".

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Yes, and Paul wasn't walking after the flesh anymore as he had made clear in Rom 7:5..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The "chief" of those now saved; the worst of the worst, as he persecuted the Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21), before his conversion.
He wasn't persecuting them anymore.
His repentance from sin was real.

 

[Hopeful]

When Jesus enters our heart and life, we are born again, a new creation and Satan flees away. So yes, I started over again, a sinner saved by grace, and still living under grace. Praise God.

If you were reborn of God's seed you couldn't have been a sinner anymore, as His seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil. (1 John 3:9)
You are the fruit of God's seed.

 

[Hopeful]

When did putting down the bottle become synonymous with being born again?

?
Where was a bottle mentioned?

 

[Walpole]

What is this, a scripture exam?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 3:3

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Joh 3:5 KJV)

Bingo! The two things Jesus said are required to be born again are water and the spirit.

Christians call this ceremony whereby man is born again in water and the spirit baptism.


Now back to my original question --> When in Christian history did being born again cease to mean baptism and instead become to mean the moment when someone decides to put down the bottle?

 

[Hopeful]

Being born again has been redefined in modern times from being baptized (what it meant in historical Christianity), to being the point in time when one decides to kick a bad habit, like putting down the bottle, or when one gives up a particular sin.

It is nice that biblical terminology keeps being used in modern street talk.
It would be better if folks actually knew what rebirth is.

 

[Cooper]

Baptism is not a work man does so your point is moot.

When Jesus explained to Nicodemus how a man is born again, He said two things are required. What are those two things?

Hint: They are the two things He experienced at the Jordan River.

Water Baptism is an act of obedience. It is following Jesus that saves.

 

[Cooper]

Bingo! The two things Jesus said are required to be born again are water and the spirit.

Christians call this ceremony whereby man is born again in water and the spirit baptism.


Now back to my original question --> When in Christian history did being born again cease to mean baptism and instead become to mean the moment when someone decides to put down the bottle?

You had better tell me because I do not know.

 

[Cnkw3]

You're still not discussing the issue! Amazing!

Ive tried but you dont know your Bible enough to have a decent Bible discussion. So yes Ive tried. But dont feel bad….you are definitely not alone.

 

[Cooper]

If you were reborn of God's seed you couldn't have been a sinner anymore, as His seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil. (1 John 3:9)
You are the fruit of God's seed.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags, whether our name is Cooper or Hitler. All are condemned, but Jesus died so that ALL who believe in him, shall be saved.

 

[jaybo]

Bingo! The two things Jesus said are required to be born again are water and the spirit.

Christians call this ceremony whereby man is born again in water and the spirit baptism.


Now back to my original question --> When in Christian history did being born again cease to mean baptism and instead become to mean the moment when someone decides to put down the bottle?

I have no experience with Christians calling this ceremony whereby man is born again in water and the spirit baptism. They are two separate actions. The first is natural birth -- by "water" (actually amniotic fluid) -- the second is spiritual birth.

Neither one refers to a ceremony, certainly not to the "burial" in water. Romans 6:4, "Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life."

BTW, the thread subject is about the baptism in the Spirit experience.

 

[hawkman]

Tongues are all over the net or TV. I dont ever see tongues personally because Im not going into a Pentecostal church. I know where the “tongues” are and I know what they sound like. I could “be in a location” if I want.

Being physically present where tongues are in evidence would help you with your understanding. TV and net are not what you need.

The problem Is this….Like i said before, i have been around many really good Christians through the years and not ONE has ever been able to speak in tongues. Thats my problem…why do you get it and all the people Ive been around don’t.

I will tell you how I got the Gift of Tongues. I received the Gift of Tongues at salvation, before I left the spot at the front of the church where I received my salvation . I stood there at the altar and words were wanting to come out of my mouth that were NOT my words . I was shocked and thought what is happening to me and I did not let The Holy Spirit have the utterance . Over the next few weeks I came to understand that The Holy Spirit was wanting to speak through me when I was at the altar . At a later church service anyone with a need went to the altar for prayer and I went and was prayed for and began speaking in tongues . No training , no teaching it just flowed . Now have I ever gave a message out in tongues in a church service , no I have not . When I am alone in prayer is when I will pray in tongues . Sometimes a melody come with the words and I sing my prayer , this is not very often but so great when it does happen .

It comes from God?

I have no doubt .

The Bible tells us that “tongues will cease“ and they have.

Tongues have ceased for you .

What passages do you appeal to that tell you you need to speak in tongues?

God thinks I need to speak as The Spirit gives the utterance, otherwise why would he give me the Gift of Tongues.

And do you follow the directions given by Paul in 1 cor 14?

Yes.