Explain Galatians 2:15-21

[Deborah13]

So you are saying we have no more commandments to live by.......................did Jesus return already..........................did heaven and earth pass away....................don't think so as we are all still living on the old Earth. Now if you do not want to walk in love which is the greatest of all the commandments then that would mean you are walking in ....................hate!!!

LOVE is the ONLY commandment and fufills ALL the OT commandments.

You ALL are talking as if Jesus is died. He is NOT died. He lives in us and continues to fulfill the law through us.

The point is that WE DO NOT fulfill the law, HE does and continues to do so until the end of this world. We cannot fulfill the law only Jesus can do this.

We are to walk in the Spirit, which produces love, if we do this we allow Jesus to fulfill the law (live through us).

The problem arises when we think it's up to us to fulfill the law producing a salvation not based on grace but on grace + works. We think we must do. I think Jesus probably has it right. He doesn't leave it up to carnal man to save themselves or anyone else. We are JUSTIFIED only by Jesus and His works. If there was anything that we could do to JUSTIFY ourselves we wouldn't need HIM.

I could quote scripture to prove this but frankly I do not see the need. You are all believers quite well versed in the scripture that tells you this.

 

[digging]

I can not speak for anyone else here but I wish to make very. very clear that I agree totally that we are Justified by Jesus only, when I personally speak about the law I might have a different take on what it all might mean compared to others here.

Recall the Jews were trying to gain life, to earn it by following the law. This can`t be done, we only receive the gift of life through faith for forgivenesss, we also know we need to pray for forgiveness when we sin. This is like the new mobile temple arrangement, Jesus sacrifice can be used any where at any time now. How do we know when we have sinned, the law still is there to show us where the line is between right and wrong.

I feel there is yet MORE for us to understand in how the law will be satisfied in the Kingdom of God, the old Law was just a shadow pointing to Jesus Christ and his KINGDOM.

Digging

 

[nmwings]

Recall the Jews were trying to gain life, to earn it by following the law.

Digging

They were not following the law given to them at Sinai. And the Pharisees hated Him so much and wanted to kill Him because He had the AUDACITY to challenge THEIR authority by telling them they were WRONG! They had corrupted the original instruction by adding thousands of "do's and don'ts" to supposedly "protect" the original commandments. Judaism calls them "fences," but in truth they are BONDAGE!!

For example, in the Mishna (known as the "Oral" Torah) there is a commandment that prohibits the mixing of spit and dirt on theSabbath. The Lord didn't impose this ridiculous law, and He proved it by doing it RIGHT IN FRONT of them in order to heal a blind man!

The Lord HIMSELF said HIS law is easy and light. And He said the same thing when He first gave it to us Deut 30:11

"For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.

 

[Mitspa]

LOVE is the ONLY commandment and fufills ALL the OT commandments.

You ALL are talking as if Jesus is died. He is NOT died. He lives in us and continues to fulfill the law through us.

The point is that WE DO NOT fulfill the law, HE does and continues to do so until the end of this world. We cannot fulfill the law only Jesus can do this.

We are to walk in the Spirit, which produces love, if we do this we allow Jesus to fulfill the law (live through us).

The problem arises when we think it's up to us to fulfill the law producing a salvation not based on grace but on grace + works. We think we must do. I think Jesus probably has it right. He doesn't leave it up to carnal man to save themselves or anyone else. We are JUSTIFIED only by Jesus and His works. If there was anything that we could do to JUSTIFY ourselves we wouldn't need HIM.

I could quote scripture to prove this but frankly I do not see the need. You are all believers quite well versed in the scripture that tells you this.

I know you can understand that every jot and tittle, means every jot and tittle! so then if one says they are under any part of the law, they must keep the whole law.

If any man be in Christ HE IS A NEW CREATION the OLD THINGS HAVE PAST AWAY, behold all things have become NEW!

here is the passing of the heavens and the earth! For those who have eyes to see? But its supernatural that some can read the NEW testament and think that a believer is under any part of the OLD testament law.

Seated with Christ in heavenly places. a New heaven and a new earth! Born- again from heaven, get what the Lord is saying?

I dont know if some will understand that? but anyone can understand that Jesus said its every jot and tittle! not this part and that part. So those who say the law has not past away? Keep it all! The whole law!

 

[Deborah13]

They were not following the law given to them at Sinai. And the Pharisees hated Him so much and wanted to kill Him because He had the AUDACITY to challenge THEIR authority by telling them they were WRONG! They had corrupted the original instruction by adding thousands of "do's and don'ts" to supposedly "protect" the original commandments. Judaism calls them "fences," but in truth they are BONDAGE!!

For example, in the Mishna (known as the "Oral" Torah) there is a commandment that prohibits the mixing of spit and dirt on theSabbath. The Lord didn't impose this ridiculous law, and He proved it by doing it RIGHT IN FRONT of them in order to heal a blind man!



The Lord HIMSELF said HIS law is easy and light. And He said the same thing when He first gave it to us Deut 30:11

"For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.

Yes, His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Why? Because of Jesus redemptive work on the cross and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, Jesus in us.


Deut. 30 is prophetic to the nation of Israel.

 

[digging]

nmwings,

As far as I understand the common view is they were trying to gain life through their own power by following the law apart from faith, what laws that were added is a second point I feel.

You see I am of the belief that all faithful men of old who followed the law through faith are also of the 'righteous firstfruits'

6 "And now I am http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-cstanding trial http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-7for the hope of http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-8the promise made by God to our fathers ; 7 the promise http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day. And for this http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-10hope, O King, I am being http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11accused by Jews.

 

[Deborah13]

I know you can understand that every jot and tittle, means every jot and tittle! so then if one says they are under any part of the law, they must keep the whole law.

If any man be in Christ HE IS A NEW CREATION the OLD THINGS HAVE PAST AWAY, behold all things have become NEW!

here is the passing of the heavens and the earth! For those who have eyes to see? But its supernatural that some can read the NEW testament and think that a believer is under any part of the OLD testament law.

Seated with Christ in heavenly places. a New heaven and a new earth! Born- again from heaven, get what the Lord is saying?

I dont know if some will understand that? but anyone can understand that Jesus said its every jot and tittle! not this part and that part. So those who say the law has not past away? Keep it all! The whole law!

I agree, we are not under, in bondage to any part of the law, period.

Key Verse of Galatians -
Galatians 5:1

King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Matthew 5:17-18

Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or [a]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.



Galatians 3:11-14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

11 Now it is evident that no person is justified (declared righteous and brought into right standing with God) through the Law, for the Scripture says, The man in right standing with God [the just, the righteous] shall live by and out of faith and he who through and by faith is declared righteous and in right standing with God shall live.
12 But the Law does not rest on faith [does not require faith, has nothing to do with faith], for it itself says, He who does them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [not by faith].
13 Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);
14 To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, so that we through faith might [all] receive [the realization of] the promise of the [Holy] Spirit.


I did not mean that we are under the law. But when we walk in the Spirit we walk in love and do fulfil the law. It is only by Christ living in us that this can happen. However, I stated that we are only justified by Christ. Saved by grace through faith (God's gift of faith).

 

[Ryan]

Yes, His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Why? Because of Jesus redemptive work on the cross and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, Jesus in us.


Deut. 30 is prophetic to the nation of Israel.

Who was Israel?

Leviticus 17:8 Then you shall say to them, ‘Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice
Leviticus 24:22 There shall be one]standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God
Numbers 9:14 If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the Lord, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land
Deuteronomy 31:11-12 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place which He will choose, you shall read this law in front of all Israel in their hearing. 12 Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the Lord your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.

Evangelizing to the "gentiles" was not a NT idea. Jethro was a pagan priest who may well have sacrificed humans as that was a practice at the time. Exodus 18:5-12 "...So Jethro said, “Blessed be the Lord who delivered you from the hand of the Egyptians and from the hand of Pharaoh, and who delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. 11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; indeed, it was proven when they dealt proudly against ]the people.†12 Then Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat]a meal with Moses’ father-in-law before God.

 

[Deborah13]

Who was Israel?

Leviticus 17:8 Then you shall say to them, ‘Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice
Leviticus 24:22 There shall be one]standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God
Numbers 9:14 If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the Lord, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land
Deuteronomy 31:11-12 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place which He will choose, you shall read this law in front of all Israel in their hearing. 12 Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the Lord your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.

Evangelizing to the "gentiles" was not a NT idea. Jethro was a pagan priest who may well have sacrificed humans as that was a practice at the time. Exodus 18:5-12 "...So Jethro said, “Blessed be the Lord who delivered you from the hand of the Egyptians and from the hand of Pharaoh, and who delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. 11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; indeed, it was proven when they dealt proudly against ]the people.” 12 Then Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat]a meal with Moses’ father-in-law before God.

The reason I believe that Deut. 30 is a prophecy for the nation of Israel and the Jewish people as individuals as well is because the scripture speaks of them RETURNING to God. The Gentiles never were with God (as a rule, not as nations or as individuals). When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD they were spread out across the known world and later further.
I do not believe in replacement theology. We Gentiles in no way take the place of the Hebrew people. We are grafted in to the vine, Christ. He came for the Jew and only came to us because of He was rejected by the Jewish people (all but a few). God caused them to slumber that we might be brought in.
So we see in this scripture that they will come back to God and they will accept Christ at some point in the future.

Jethro, yes, there are many Jewish Ethiopians today. (sp?)

 

[Ryan]

The reason I believe that Deut. 30 is a prophecy for the nation of Israel and the Jewish people as individuals as well is because the scripture speaks of them RETURNING to God. The Gentiles never were with God (as a rule, not as nations or as individuals). When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD they were spread out across the known world and later further.
I do not believe in replacement theology. We Gentiles in no way take the place of the Hebrew people. We are grafted in to the vine, Christ. He came for the Jew and only came to us because of He was rejected by the Jewish people (all but a few). God caused them to slumber that we might be brought in.
So we see in this scripture that they will come back to God and they will accept Christ at some point in the future.

Jethro, yes, there are many Jewish Ethiopians today. (sp?)

Agreed for the most part. What's interesting in Deuteronomy 30 is how many times does it say obey, or turn back to my ways? 6 - 7 times? What were those ways? It was Torah/Law. It was a prophecy and true to God's Word repeated itself how many times in the OT? Numerous times. When they followed God's commandments, they were surely blessed. When they didn't, they were surely cursed and punished. But God always gave outs and opportunities to turn away from wickedness and repent. He is still offering that today to Jew and Gentile alike. The OT is someways like watching some poor guy getting it in the gonads on America's Funniest Videos, but they have different people in different clips getting the crotch shot and it makes us facepalm it each time on how dumb people could be. Same thing reading about why when people, kings, nations know the consequences, they still do it anyways. Same sins, just different characters and settings.

Deuteronomy 30:4-8 "If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. 7 The Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.

Verse 8 is so telling to me that after he brings back his people from the ends of the earth, which he has, they will once again obey and follow his Torah/Law.

 

[Mitspa]

I agree, we are not under, in bondage to any part of the law, period.

Key Verse of Galatians -
Galatians 5:1

King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Matthew 5:17-18

Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or [a]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.



Galatians 3:11-14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

11 Now it is evident that no person is justified (declared righteous and brought into right standing with God) through the Law, for the Scripture says, The man in right standing with God [the just, the righteous] shall live by and out of faith and he who through and by faith is declared righteous and in right standing with God shall live.
12 But the Law does not rest on faith [does not require faith, has nothing to do with faith], for it itself says, He who does them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [not by faith].
13 Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);
14 To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, so that we through faith might [all] receive [the realization of] the promise of the [Holy] Spirit.


I did not mean that we are under the law. But when we walk in the Spirit we walk in love and do fulfil the law. It is only by Christ living in us that this can happen. However, I stated that we are only justified by Christ. Saved by grace through faith (God's gift of faith).

Yes Deb13, I know that you understand that one can only be justified by Christ alone! Sorry if I sounded as if I was speaking to you, but I just used a response to your post.

It seems as if some will go to any length to try to establish the law. Jews and this and that? All false doctrine!

Having disarmed satan when the law was nailed to His Cross,
We see that satan, must have the law in place to have power over any believer.

This is why we see the groups that do all they can to bring back parts of the law, into the church.

The best defense against this is the wholeness of the law., every jot and tittle! they have no answer for Lords words!

Either He fulfilled it all, or none of it!

Good morning, and God Bless!

 

[nmwings]

Deut. 30 is prophetic to the nation of Israel.

Really? Then you haven't read this…

Not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath, but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here today…. so that there will not be among you a man or woman, or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God…that there will not be among you a root bearing poisonous fruit and wormwood. "It shall be when he hears the words of this curse, that he will boast , saying, 'I have peace though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart in order to destroy the watered land with the dry.' "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven. Deut 29:14-20

 

[nmwings]

nmwings,

As far as I understand the common view is they were trying to gain life through their own power by following the law apart from faith,

They were trying to gain life by adding to and changing (thereby invalidating) God’s law with their own law. Their law actually drew them AWAY from the Lord instead of nearer.

Yeshua (Jesus) told them this in Matt 15:8-9…
And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (The “fences” I referred to earlier) "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.' "

The reason the Messiah was sent in the first place was BECAUSE they changed (“invalidated”) the law given at Sinai. Had Yeshua (Jesus) NOT come at a time when the Pharisees had led the people away from Torah, it would have DISQUALIFIED Him for being the Messiah.

Since He refers directly to Isaiah, take a look at that prophesy….
Isa 29:13-14 Therefore the Lord said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men, Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work Among this people, A marvelous work and a wonder; (the Messiah!) For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden." Isn’t that EXACTLYwhat happened? YES!! The understandingof the Messiah had been hidden from them and to this day the descendants of Judah (Jews) in general have been blinded! Just as the prophecies said would happen.

God is true to His Word!

 

[Deborah13]

Agreed for the most part. What's interesting in Deuteronomy 30 is how many times does it say obey, or turn back to my ways? 6 - 7 times? What were those ways? It was Torah/Law. It was a prophecy and true to God's Word repeated itself how many times in the OT? Numerous times. When they followed God's commandments, they were surely blessed. When they didn't, they were surely cursed and punished. But God always gave outs and opportunities to turn away from wickedness and repent. He is still offering that today to Jew and Gentile alike. The OT is someways like watching some poor guy getting it in the gonads on America's Funniest Videos, but they have different people in different clips getting the crotch shot and it makes us facepalm it each time on how dumb people could be. Same thing reading about why when people, kings, nations know the consequences, they still do it anyways. Same sins, just different characters and settings.

Deuteronomy 30:4-8 "If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. 7 The Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.

Verse 8 is so telling to me that after he brings back his people from the ends of the earth, which he has, they will once again obey and follow his Torah/Law.

Yes, God says they SHALL/WILL obey, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, = the commandment to love which fulfills all the commandments of the Torah/Law the 10
The Mosaic Laws were all a shadow of what was to come through the sacrifice of His only begotten Son

Jesus was the perfect fulfillment of the law of love, in laying down His life for us.

What I find very telling is verse 6 were God reveals how He will bring this about. HE will circumcise their hearts "to love the Lord"

Circumcision of the flesh/ of the fleshy soul without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit verses Circumcision of the heart/ of the spirit with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

Yes, a facepalm, more often than not directed at myself.

Yes, in His grace and mercy, He gave them a way out. We see them in the sacrifices and the feasts, etc. But the law did not help them to live by it. There was no power in it to help them to fulfill it. God had to intercede in order for David's life to be spared. David recognized this and was so greatful. David the shepard boy, a type of Christ but not The Christ (Anointed One).

I love the OT even though I find that sometimes I find it frightening and I have to step back and remember I am already in Deut. 30 that God has circumcised my heart/spirit. It's exciting to realize how God's plan has and is being fulfilled.

 

[Ryan]

Yes Deb13, I know that you understand that one can only be justified by Christ alone! Sorry if I sounded as if I was speaking to you, but I just used a response to your post.

It seems as if some will go to any length to try to establish the law. Jews and this and that? All false doctrine!

Having disarmed satan when the law was nailed to His Cross,
We see that satan, must have the law in place to have power over any believer.

This is why we see the groups that do all they can to bring back parts of the law, into the church.

The best defense against this is the wholeness of the law., every jot and tittle! they have no answer for Lords words!

Either He fulfilled it all, or none of it!

Good morning, and God Bless!

I have read several commentaries on Galatians, and the main context was Paul was writing to the Gentile Galatians scolding them for thinking that faith alone wasn't enough to receive salvation and they had to go through the formal conversion to become a Jew to put the finishing touches on their salvation. Paul is sharply criticizing those Jews who are insisting the conversion to be legally Jewish and the Gentiles who are believing this stuff. Paul was, after all, a man passionate for men to keep their foreskins to prove Messiah's atonement was sufficient to save the Gentiles who hadn't been customized. This was the works based stuff Paul was so vehemently opposed to.

Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees. Throughout his writings he was employing a "midrash" that was a bible study employing rabbinic hermeneutics making. Peter even said about Paul's letters that "...unstable people will distort, as they do other scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16). If it was difficult to understand Paul for the first century believers, how much more so centuries later? Galatians was written to argue for Gentile inclusion into Israel, not Gentile exclusion from Israel.

There are 3 basic principles for reading Paul:
1. Scripture does not contradict itself
2. Scripture is to be read in context and to the who the letter was being written to
3. Paul was a Torah observant Jew as shown by his Nazirite vow in Acts 18 and Acts 21

Some use passages in Galatians to say the Law/Torah is nullified. Then you have Romans 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law/Torah." Oops, contradiction right there. So which one is it? Well I know Paul was Torah observant. Cause if he was preaching one thing, yet doing another, feel free to call him a hypocrite. Jesus never taught against the Law. After healing from leprosy, he commanded the person to go show yourself to a priest and present an offering (Matthew 8:1-4, Mark 1:40-44, Luke 5:12-14). Jesus gives it to the Pharisees in Mathew 23:23 for not doing the "weightier" matters of the Law/Torah and the requirements of the Law first as tithing dill was an optional, rabbinic law. Do the Torah first he is saying, then you can do the optional things. He also told the people to listen to the teachings of the Pharisees as they read from Moses seat (teach from Torah) Matthew 23:1-3. So even if Paul was saying the Law/Torah is done away with, I will default to my Master, my Redeemer, my Savior, my King and reconcile Paul's difficult passages in contrast to the rest of the Bible. Show me where Jesus says the Torah is done away with from a Bible translation that isn't loosely based on the Bible, and I will gladly say I am wrong and believed in heresy.

Revelations 14:12 "Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."
1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome." Hmm, heard this verse before in Deuteronomy 31?

The flip side to this though, and just my opinion, some of the HR and MJ movements have taken things to a bit of an extreme level with their tolerance, or lack of tolerance and condemnation of those who don't practice the Law/Torah. The fact is when we are born again, saved, circumcised of the heart, the Holy Spirit moves within us to begin doing his will. Fact is, just by following the 10 Commandments giving to the poor, evangelizing, caring for others, loving your neighbour fulfill a good portion of God's commandments. Isn't that just the natural inclination for believer's when indwelt with the Holy Spirit in wanting to do? Who are we to condemn the Chinese believer in China who eats pork, doesn't go to church on the Sabbath, observe the Feasts, yet evangelizes in secret to save souls from eternal damnation even though the cost may be their freedom, or even death. I am not prepared to do that because I know I will be judged by how we judge others? God know's our heart, and our thoughts. I won't condemn anyone who doesn't follow it, even though just by being believers they already are, but don't condemn us who do. I can only tell you the blessings I have received by doing so, and God is great, isn't he?

 

[Deborah13]

They were trying to gain life by adding to and changing (thereby invalidating) God’s law with their own law. Their law actually drew them AWAY from the Lord instead of nearer.

Yeshua (Jesus) told them this in Matt 15:8-9…
And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (The “fences” I referred to earlier) "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.' "

The reason the Messiah was sent in the first place was BECAUSE they changed (“invalidated”) the law given at Sinai. Had Yeshua (Jesus) NOT come at a time when the Pharisees had led the people away from Torah, it would have DISQUALIFIED Him for being the Messiah.

Since He refers directly to Isaiah, take a look at that prophesy….
Isa 29:13-14 Therefore the Lord said: "Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men, Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work Among this people, A marvelous work and a wonder; (the Messiah!) For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden." Isn’t that EXACTLYwhat happened? YES!! The understandingof the Messiah had been hidden from them and to this day the descendants of Judah (Jews) in general have been blinded! Just as the prophecies said would happen.

God is true to His Word!

Lets read on in Matt 15 to verses 10 and 11. Jesus gives and explanation and example of what He is talking about. Was it not the Lord who had given the commands as to what they were to eat and drink? Yes. Did they add to or change it? I don't find evidence that they did. So what was the problem? They took the commandment and used it to enslave the people to doctrine without the spiritual understanding of it. I personally believe the percept is that if you put unclean in, unclean will come out. I also believe that the early Hebrew fathers understood these things but as time went by the fleshy corrupt nature of man used what was good and holy to enslave the people for their own benefit. Those they were not operating in the spirit of the laws. The people not having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit could not discern these things and the law is the law. It does not provide spiritual understanding and grace, in and of itself. Therefore, their hearts were remmoved from God. Law taught as Thou Shall Not with just the cursing and not the blessing, will always create a response in the flesh. Pride, self-pity, condemnation, indulgence, rebellion, etc. Grace however produces Gods love being shed abroad in the hearts of men.
This is where I see the Pharisees went wrong. We see the same thing in our churches today. The early church had the teaching of grace, especially from Paul and his followers (disciples). God has seen that the NT is constructed with mainly Paul's teaching. The whole OT taught the law but the grace was hidden from all but a few eyes. "if there had not been fault found in the old covenant there would have been no need for the new" paraphrased. That is not to say that God made a mistake only that there was a purpose for the covenant of the law and now the covenant of grace. Funny how the Lord has brought us full circle. Abrahamic covenant of grace, then law, and back to grace.

 

[Ryan]

Yes, God says they SHALL/WILL obey, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, = the commandment to love which fulfills all the commandments of the Torah/Law the 10
The Mosaic Laws were all a shadow of what was to come through the sacrifice of His only begotten Son.

If you are quoting Matthew 22:37-40 "And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” The word "depend" is also used in other translations as "hang" Hanging is used as G2910 and it does not reference or even allude to the ending of anything that was written previously. It merely suspends these 2 commandments as a coat hanger, which holds and binds everything to the top. So Jesus is thus saying that his commandments in the Law/Torah are based on love and every other commandment after that is built on this premise. Nothing is saying here, and nothing Jesus ever said was implied to disregard the Law/Torah.

So if we only have these two commandments, what was Jesus meaning when he said in Matthew 5:19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments [as referencing to the Law and the Prophets in the previous verse], and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. If we only have 2 now, which one of them is considered the least?

 

[Ryan]

Funny how the Lord has brought us full circle. Abrahamic covenant of grace, then law, and back to grace.

And in the Millenium we will be back to law then cause in Zechariah 14:16-19 "Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the]punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Bible rundown if based on the assertion that has been provided here is:
1. Obey statutes and be blessed
2. Disobey and be cursed and punished, and let’s be clear on this, wanton disobedience of worshipping idols, drunkenness, the really bad, bad stuff is what we are talking about and not heeding to warnings.
3. Begin obeying again, repent and come back to fellowship with the Lord.
4. Repeat a few times
5. Now, not with Jesus, but Paul had to be raised up to assert that now the law and it’s commandments are bad. Apparently not the Apostles who walked with the Lord, nor even his very own brother seemed to get the memo, that the Law was done away with.
6. So now, following the Law is a curse and to do so would be legalism and un-Christian like for the next almost 2 millenium.
7. But come the Millenium, in Zechariah 14 ALL will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles and if the nations that attacked Jerusalem do not come, they will have no rain.
8. So now the Law/Torah is good again to follow?
9. Following this logic it’s Torah good, Torah bad, now Torah good again.

I'm not gonna be the one to tell God that is legalism then in the Millenium. Just food for thought.

 

[Deborah13]

If you are quoting Matthew 22:37-40 "And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” The word "depend" is also used in other translations as "hang" Hanging is used as G2910 and it does not reference or even allude to the ending of anything that was written previously. It merely suspends these 2 commandments as a coat hanger, which holds and binds everything to the top. So Jesus is thus saying that his commandments in the Law/Torah are based on love and every other commandment after that is built on this premise. Nothing is saying here, and nothing Jesus ever said was implied to disregard the Law/Torah.

So if we only have these two commandments, what was Jesus meaning when he said in Matthew 5:19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments [as referencing to the Law and the Prophets in the previous verse], and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. If we only have 2 now, which one of them is considered the least?

Hmmm, it seems to me that the more obvious question here is which of the 10 is the least? Which one of them would you say is the least? Especially seeing that Jesus taught that if you broke one you broke them all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hmmm, it seems to me that the more obvious question here is which of the 10 is the least? Which one of them would you say is the least? Especially seeing that Jesus taught that if you broke one you broke them all.

there isn't a least.
Jesus was making a point that if you annul anyone of them you are claiming authority over God.