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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Free Will is a Fallen Will
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
People either choose to believe or they choose not to believe.
God does not force people to believe.
JLB
atpollard
Member
- [Rom 3:11 NASB] 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
- [1Co 2:14 NASB] 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
- [Jhn 3:19-20 NASB] 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
- [Eph 2:4-5 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
(PS. Nowhere in John 3:16 does it say that people make the choice to believe. It just says “whoever believes” ... whatever the cause of that belief might be.)
Paul is quoting David from the Psalms.
The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Psalm 14:1-3
The context is about the fool. David is observing those of his generation that are fools and how they have gone astray and have no use for God.
Not all mankind.
Paul uses this scripture from the psalms to show the Jews they are no better than Gentiles.
As you have been shown, Abel was righteous.
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4
Noah was righteous
Abraham was justified by faith.
Here is God’s testimony of Abraham —
And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Genesis 26:4-5
And what more shall I say?
For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
Hebrews 11:32-38
These are many righteous and godly men and women of faith whom the Holy Spirit says the world is not worthy of these great hero’s of faith.
JLB
atpollard
Member
That quote in Psalms is not just speaking of fools. The Lord is passing judgement on “the children of men” which includes everyone except Adam, Eve and Jesus (God Himself, and not man, is their father).
As an aside, some become “sons of God”, which negates their former folly as “children of men”.
atp,
In my devotions this morning I read Ps 143. Verse 2 states: 'Don’t put your servant on trial, for no one is innocent before you' (NLT).
This seems to refer to all those not redeemed. Not one of them is 'innocent before God'. That reads like total depravity.
The ESV translates it as: 'Enter not into judgement with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you'.
Oz
The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Psalms 14:1-3
The children of men who are fools, who say their is no God, and are corrupt because they do not know Him.
That’s the context.
Otherwise, you are lumping the people who do know their God and fear Him, (David) together with the people who say their is no God.
Is that what your teaching?
Their is no distinction between those who say there is no God, and the righteous who love and obey Him.
Abraham, Noah, David, Daniel, Jeremiah to name a few come to mind.
JLB
Actually that’s your opinion that you received from Calvinism.
Here is one of May passages that refute your opinion.
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
Hebrews 11:4
Men who walked with God as nd are righteous are distinct from men who believe their is no God and are corrupt.
This is the genealogy of Noah.
Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. Genesis 6:9
It’s sad the theology that is built upon misunderstanding one scripture and it’s context, would lead you to slander men who walked with God in righteousness and obeyed him, keeping His commandments.
JLB
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
It harmonizes with the teaching of John 6:37 because He says the same thing in His teaching, which says in verse 44...
he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. John 6:37-44
God does not force people to believe.
God does not force people to obey Him.
He works with people and gives them grace to do things they can not do without it, which is to believe and obey Him. This is part of Him teaching those who will listen.
It is those who hear His voice, and follow Him, that Receive eternal life.
Hear His voice means to listen or hearken to do what is heard.
JLB
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Our physical bodies are not without sin.
There is sin that dwells in our flesh, in our mortal bodies, that war against the Spirit within our spirit, seeking to gratify its lustful desires.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17
Some refer to this as a sin nature.
If we yield to these sinful desires that dwell in our flesh rather than by the Spirit put these deeds to death, we will perish.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13
If we sin, then we can confess our sin and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
There is a difference in “having sin” and “committing a sin” and “practicing sin” or
“Practicing the works of the flesh”
JLB
That’s you taking a man made unbiblical term,
“Unconditional Election”, and creating a theology from it.
The condition by which Issac was chosen over Ishmael was God intended to bring for a son from
Sarah who was barren and past the age of child bearing, to bring forth a son by way of a miracle, foreshadowing the miracle birth of Christ by the hand of God.
It was not because Ishmael was evil and Issac was good, but based on God’s predetermined condition that His work in bringing forth the Messiah through a specific lineage would be understood.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
His predetermined condition for purpose.
JLB
JLB,
Your reply raises several questions:
1. Where in our human bodies does this sin reside? In the kidneys, liver, hands or toes?
2. Do my blood vessels sin?
3. In Gal 5:16-17 which you cited it states: 'For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh'. How is it possible for human flesh to lust against the Spirit unless sarx means more than the biology of my human body?
Oz
atpollard
Member
No, I came to the opinion long before I had ever heard of Calvinism or Arminianism and I came to believe it while studying scripture in a non-Calvinist church (Church of God of Anderson Indian - part of the Wesleyan Holiness Movement). So (T) (U) (I) (P) all come directly from scripture for me and I later learned that there was a name for what I believed called “Calvinism”.
The only thing that I got from Calvinism was the (L) ... I had never given any thought to who Jesus died for until Calvinism asked the question. It was enough that Jesus had died for me, so I never thought to ask who beyond that.
atpollard
Member
You have not addressed what the verses in Psalms actually SAY. You just keep telling ME that I am wrong, when I am not the one that wrote the quote from Psalms that you chose to quote. Can you seriously read Romans 3, where the Apostle Paul quotes from that Psalm and claim that Paul agrees that with you that some men are righteous and other men are sinful?
I slander no one. Scripture states what it states, no matter how many verses you post claiming that it “should not”.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Where does this verse say sin resides in our mortal body?
If you have a verse that says sin resides in specific parts of our body, then please post it so we can discuss it.
Is there a point you would like to make, in this?
JLB