Issues with Speaking In Tongues

[farouk]

We just concluded a class. One of the sub topics treated was speaking in tongues. So, how should a Christian speak in tongues?

In this class, did anyone ask these questions?

1.What was the purpose of tongues?

2. What did God want to accomplish through the spiritual gift of tongues?

Stated differently, why seek a means to get what the believer in the Lord Jesus already has, by His grace?

Blessings.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Stated differently, why seek a means to get what the believer in the Lord Jesus already has, by His grace? Blessings.

Answer, your servant is capable of serving you forever, but if you get him a drivers license, he can do even more, better, faster, etc...

 

[farouk]

Stated differently, why seek a means to get what the believer in the Lord Jesus already has, by His grace? Blessings.

Answer, your servant is capable of serving you forever, but if you get him a drivers license, he can do even more, better, faster, etc...

..but if you already have what you say you're looking for, in the shape of God's Word...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Stated differently, why seek a means to get what the believer in the Lord Jesus already has, by His grace? Blessings.

Answer, your servant is capable of serving you forever, but if you get him a drivers license, he can do even more, better, faster, etc...

..but if you already have what you say you're looking for, in the shape of God's Word...

If you doubt you can pass a drivers' test, then you probably never will.

 

[farouk]

Stated differently, why seek a means to get what the believer in the Lord Jesus already has, by His grace? Blessings.

Answer, your servant is capable of serving you forever, but if you get him a drivers license, he can do even more, better, faster, etc...

..but if you already have what you say you're looking for, in the shape of God's Word...

If you doubt you can pass a drivers' test, then you probably never will.

I think the analogy is getting increasingly tenuous...

Sticking to the Word we already have, we won't go far wrong...

 

[gr8grace]

I believe tongues ceased in 70 AD. I do not deny the reality of tongues today, I do deny the biblical validity of it though.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

Tongues, they.....plural will cease.

So if we know Gods purpose for tongues and the purpose has been fulfilled, they have ceased.

What was Gods purpose for tongues? To be a sign for unbelieving Jews that were in the 5th cycle of discipline from God.

1st cycle: Leviticus 26:16-17
2nd cycle: Leviticus 26:18-20
3rd cycle: Leviticus 26:21-22
4th cycle: Leviticus 26:23-26
5th cycle: Leviticus 26:27-38; amplified in Deuteronomy 28:49-67

Isaiah 28:11 Indeed, He [ God ] will speak to this [ specifies a specific group of people; remember the word “this” when you read and interpret 1 Corinthians 14:21 ] people [ Israel as a nation; not the church; not Christians, but Israel and Israel alone ] through stammering lips [ speech that when miraculously spoken by persons who had never learned the language make the speakers sound like drunkards ] and a foreign tongue [ all tongues were Gentile languages ],

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the Law it is written [ a reference to Isaiah 28:11 ], “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this [ the word “this” is the same word used in Isaiah 28:11 and is a reference to Israel as a nation; not the church; not Christians, but Israel as a nation; in other words, “Jews” ] people [ Israel ], and even so they [ Israel ] will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

On the day of Pentecost 30 AD Tongues began and were for the unbelieving nation of Israel. Because in 70 AD God was going to administer His 5th cycle of discipline to the nation of Israel.

Paul can teach about tongues in corinthians(55 or 56 AD) because there were approximately 15 years left until the 5th cycle of discipline for the Nation of Israel( 70 AD).Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus ( A.D. 40-81), Roman emperor, son of Vespasian, took Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[farouk]

I believe tongues ceased in 70 AD. I do not deny the reality of tongues today, I do deny the biblical validity of it though.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

Tongues, they.....plural will cease.

So if we know Gods purpose for tongues and the purpose has been fulfilled, they have ceased.

What was Gods purpose for tongues? To be a sign for unbelieving Jews that were in the 5th cycle of discipline from God.

1st cycle: Leviticus 26:16-17
2nd cycle: Leviticus 26:18-20
3rd cycle: Leviticus 26:21-22
4th cycle: Leviticus 26:23-26
5th cycle: Leviticus 26:27-38; amplified in Deuteronomy 28:49-67

Isaiah 28:11 Indeed, He [ God ] will speak to this [ specifies a specific group of people; remember the word “this” when you read and interpret 1 Corinthians 14:21 ] people [ Israel as a nation; not the church; not Christians, but Israel and Israel alone ] through stammering lips [ speech that when miraculously spoken by persons who had never learned the language make the speakers sound like drunkards ] and a foreign tongue [ all tongues were Gentile languages ],

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the Law it is written [ a reference to Isaiah 28:11 ], “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this [ the word “this” is the same word used in Isaiah 28:11 and is a reference to Israel as a nation; not the church; not Christians, but Israel as a nation; in other words, “Jews” ] people [ Israel ], and even so they [ Israel ] will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

On the day of Pentecost 30 AD Tongues began and were for the unbelieving nation of Israel. Because in 70 AD God was going to administer His 5th cycle of discipline to the nation of Israel.

Paul can teach about tongues in corinthians(55 or 56 AD) because there were approximately 15 years left until the 5th cycle of discipline for the Nation of Israel( 70 AD).Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus ( A.D. 40-81), Roman emperor, son of Vespasian, took Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I think I would generally agree with this.

What needs to be remembered is the sheer fulness and power of the Word of God today.

What Christians need to do is learn it and follow it. This takes effort and spiritual exercise, by God's grace.

Blessings.

 

[Brother Mike]

In this class, did anyone ask these questions?

1.What was the purpose of tongues?

2. What did God want to accomplish through the spiritual gift of tongues?

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

This scripture answers your question. We don't know what we should always be praying for and for the intercession of the saints. People are so selfish about not pursuing a gift Jesus said is yours if you believe on his name.

What does it do for me?

What do I need tongues for?

I can do this in plain English.

It's all about me, and If I don't see a value in something God has for me then just forget it!!!! Me, me, me, me, me!!!!

I went after the gift because...........

1) Jesus said it was mine out of the other 8 gifts used in a Church setting.
2) for intercession and helping others as a tool to be a blessing.

So I did not stop seeking or give up, I did not receive right away because God had to help me get to the place of receiving.

Just an example of Tongues Yesterday.

At Church the wife had been feeling the anointing like a burning feeling in her stomach. That normally meant danger for someone or us in the past but she did not know what it was. We got home and she just started to cry a few times and did not know why........... (God does not use sorrow to get something across to us, but He will help us by symptoms of things)

Well, the only thing you can do is pray in tongues about it, God is needing to get something over to us. The wife started to pray in tongues and I went in the bedroom to pray in tongues. We both got accident, keep praying.

My youngest son was out with some friends, so trying to connect the dots my wife called them to see what they were doing. They were at the Landing (Branson) just doing what teens do. They were eating and talking about video games and God. The wife spoke safety over the driver (My son's older friend) and let them go. I told the wife I don't think it has to do with someone we know or else the Holy Spirit would have told us after praying in tongues.

So we just pray though for victory whatever that car crash or accident is. We had no idea but that it was accident related somehow, but just pray and it's taken care of.

Wife went to work and I took my daughter over to her Grandmas across town. I prayed in tongues all the way there and back. When I got home my son was home and asked if "HE" could go to Grandma's.
Just then I got in my spirit.............WAIT!!!! Just WAIT!!!

I told my son here in a bit I would make yet another trip across town and drop him off. About 45 min I got this......... GO!!! GO!!! so I told my son lets go to Grandma's. I prayed in tongues all the way there dropped him off and started to pray again back.

Driving on Shepard of the hills on the way home I see a car in the road and some Lady trying to wave me down. I stopped, pulled over and she was frantic asking if I had a cell phone. I did not have it on me, then she told me a couple on a motorcycle had just gone off the steep cliff on the side of the road all the way down into the tree's below.

I looked at her and said where? i went to the side of the road and could not see anything as there was just to many tree's and brush.

Great.......... It was really steep but I started down the best I could to find these people and just then I knew exactly why we had been praying. Getting most the way down I saw the motorcycle under some brush and against some rock. There was a man there but I did not see the girl right away (His wife)

The wife had been thrown about 20 feet under some trees and brush and she was talking. I checked to make sure there was not bleeding that needed compression then went back to the guy to check him out and make sure there was not arterial spurting that needed compression. I check for missing limbs that might need a tourniquet.

Just then I said both of you will be fine, and shall recover. A guy came down behind me and I called up for the girls that stopped to get me a cloth, shirt something. The guy was missing his nose and part of his face, his shirt covered in blood. He was talking but going into shock. His foot was at a 90 degree angle but still attached which is good that the bone did not bust any major arteries.

Not much else I could do though. I just talked to them telling him his wife was fine and alive and he was going to be fine. His bike missed two big tree's on the way down though by inches following the path the bike cut through and I already know God had this taken care of as both were Christians.

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/HP68/AccidentDetailsAction?ACC_RPT_NUM=130608721

I said I was there, God was there, and the power of His love and healing was there where I was at. When I got back up to the top on the road someone asked me how they were and I said that God already has taken care of them, they will be fine.

It's not about "US" people or what you think you can't get................................... We have work to do, and you need to go after everything God gave us to use for others. Now step outside your comfort zone and get to seeking.

This just happened yesterday............. (9-22-2013)

Mike.

 

[Northman]

Some here act as if its God holding back the gift of tongues, and that is not the case.

I havent seen this at all. What i have seen are people ready, waiting, wanting, and hopeful for this gift...even after years and years of not having. What i do see is the judgement, the believer that walks in, has certain gifts, and then promptly accuses anyone who doesnt have what they have as unbelief or laziness. This is a human thing, nothing else. The idea that because something happened to them(through experience) then it has to be that way for everyone else as well. Normally when this sort of thing is spoken about its about human issues involving a horde of participants to find a trend. When one does it on their own and in reference to things above, they are well past the line of knowing gods heart to interpreting his mind, which is propbably one of the hugest fails throughout our history and source of infinite grief. Spanish inquisition and salem(extremes, yes) witch trials come to mind, the understanding that god doesnt like such a thing, but dealing with them in our own way off our own power.

We are told to ask. We are told our needs are fulfilled(not wants). If all "needs" seem to be met cept for this one thing(that we can see), then why accuse?

what I am saying is that I have been in your shoes. People go up to the pulpit, get zapped with something then they are speaking like a Camel auctioneer in the Arab desert. I get that, been there and wondering where my gift of tongues was at.

You sure have the initial feeling down, no doubt. This only goes on for a limited amount of time before someone in this position starts to ask themselves more serious questions. These questions asked are due to mans teaching about such things. Man says i got that within a year, whats wrong with you? Man says forget the testimony of your life and how you should have been a statistic, you dont operate in this gift so you are in unbelief. Should i as man say; every time you have had a vision and havent been pulled off by your hair as (ugh i forget who that was again) then it hasnt been a vision at all. As man am i to say; What? you say god spoke to you? Did he appear to you on the road and blind you? if not then he didnt. All this is a human type of arguing. Picking and choosing.

To make a grandiose claim that god is like some kind of dispensory and all you have to do is go push the "give me" button is not only wrong, but dishonouring to the idea of the mystery of god in the first place and goes even a step further turning him into a sort of machine or computer(this is the part guests walk away with when briefly reading the things we argue about). And of course nobody needs to be reminded that if god is a machine, he is no god at all. We all know this.

But before we have a working definition and some agreement, we may not travel down that path and examine what comes later. First: are the terms, "Promise of the Father" and the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" and "Poured out" and "Filled" and other such references linked? There is a very deep study, all the way down to the Greek tense of various words that can be brought to shed light, but this forum isn't really the place for it.

Every theological college and its dog have probably tackled this one. I dont mean modern though, talking about wayyy back in the old days when learned folks would stand around and talk with eachother while people would listen. A far cry from the new versons of "im ticketed in this so do as i say" types.

pick up the scriptures to study and show thyself approved unto God

Im seeing this more and more lately, and when i do its usually associated with translating things in and out of greek and hebrew. Im wrong right? I can keep still the defender? Sorry this one might be slightly OT.

 

[Brother Mike]

And of course nobody needs to be reminded that if god is a machine, he is no god at all. We all know this.

God is not mysterious, God keep His Word. I have not seen one thing you asking How MIKE. You ask those that know, you don't take your car to the hairdresser to get it fixed you take it to someone that knows how to fix cars.

To make a grandiose claim that god is like some kind of dispensory and all you have to do is go push the "give me" button is not only wrong

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Mar_11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

I would be careful who you are calling "WRONG" the problem is you have to believe you receive something and God is mysterious so who knows what God will give you.

You can stay stuck in your religion. I was here to help but you know it all. It's not about you, did you read what I posted above?

http://www.news-leader.com/article/...air-injured-in-Branson-crash?odyssey=nav|head

I will leave you alone, there is nothing else to do here.

Mike.

 

[Northman]

I have not seen one thing you asking How MIKE. You ask those that know, you don't take your car to the hairdresser to get it fixed you take it to someone that knows how to fix cars.

This is what im talking about, nothing else. You cant make yourself the mechanic for peoples lives, nobody can. There isnt a method for supernatural healing that can be taught. There isnt a method for supernatural tongues that can be taught. There isnt a method for recieving supernatural wisdom that one can be taught. The list goes on.

And just as important is the fact that god deals with people on issues when it suits him. To walk in and speak with what would be disguised as a godly rebuke but isnt. To attempt to say that you know, that anyone would know...

Stop pitting whoever disagrees with what you say against god, that needs to end. The gifts you have been given arent a stamp of approval on everything you say.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What do I need tongues for?

I can do this in plain English.

It's all about me, and If I don't see a value in something God has for me then just forget it!!!! Me, me, me, me, me!!!!

Woe, hold the phone, bro!

You're using my quote out of context.

What I was doing was being funny by saying I can "have not charity", and "become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" without tongues, lol (1 Corinthians 13:1).

I know what the Bible says the value of tongues is. It does what I can't do in my natural self.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We have to be careful about not wanting to be (Rich) or pursue things God has for us as it's not for us to live fat lives but that for others.

That's not the argument.

 

[Northman]

[edited to remove reply to deleted post]
Yes brother, there is teaching going on here, and many are learning from you...but its not what you want them to learn. Quote this line and show more pride?

The warning for us all stands...you can have all the gifts that there are, if you treat other believers with contempt and slander then it would have been better for you if you hadnt been given anything at all. We cant say "you fool" to anyone, so much more a believer.

Just a heads up about the stories. We appreciate them, they are a blessing. But dont for one second think that the rest of us dont have a multitude of life saving events or other things that you describe. These are the miracles of our everyday lives. We ALL know them.

Healing comes next, let it.

 

[Brother Mike]

[deleted Public reply to Moderator]

I know what the Bible says the value of tongues is. It does what I can't do in my natural self.

I guess you got the chance to see my post. God empowers us with things to be a effective tool to help others. Things I thought were for me, turned out needed for someone else. Seek this gift.

I gave a real example of just yesterday and the link to the accident that the gift is very valuable and for every believer. If I did not have that ability to pray about something I knew nothing about then do all things always work together for the good. This was used for someone else I did not even know, but God put me right at the place we had been praying about. I was told when to leave, when to stay and Just knew that it had something to do with a accident that could have been deadly.

These were believers, an older couple, and God just used my wife and I, He could have picked anyone that will hear and obey when it's time to pray.

If I believed in elections or God picks favorites then I would not ask you to seek this, but God is no respecter of persons at all, and does not favor me over you or anyone else.

It took my wife 6 months hours a day just reading and studying any book she could get on tongues, she wanted this and 6 months later the anointing came and she started to speak in tongues. Why 6 months? Who knows, but Jesus said if you believe on His name, you shall speak with new tongues and that is good enough for me, and you.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes brother, there is teaching going on here, and many are learning from you...but its not what you want them to learn. Quote this line and show more pride?

It's not pride, I want my brothers and sisters to have everything God has for us. Tongues is just one thing that Jesus said if you believe on my name you shall speak with new tongues. Good enough for me.

I don't see any scriptures about using any of the other gifts unless the spirit wills, just tongues and Paul said I am glad I pray more in tongues than the rest of you.

The whole comment was that you did seek but God would not..................... That was the issue I had because I know God will for you, if He did it for me and we just need to keep seeking. I don't believe in any election doctrine.

Mike.

 

[Sparkey]

Moderator Caution:

Be especially careful when offering unwanted spiritual advice or anything that may be seen as unwanted spiritual advice. We are allowed to sharpen iron together, but we are not to trespass on the ground of others.

If the noise levels in this thread continue to rise, I will close it and that, my friends will be a shame to one and to all (self included). Not something that I will like to do, especially not in this thread.

 

[reba]

Tongues has been part of my life always. I grew up in a Pentecostal home... My heart is broken when brother/sisters fight over the gifts of our Father. Yes i speak/pray in tongues probably more years then many of you have been alive...

How do we use the gifts given? Do we use them as a wedge, or a hammer. How does bickering and bragging glorify the Giver? Most of us have children, think, you give a a precious gift to them and watch them fight.

 

[jasoncran]

all the more reasons why I seldom talk about it on the forum. I have been baptized in the holy ghost and operated in some of the gifts and still go to a pentacostal church.

 

[Nick]

How should a Christian speak in tongues?

First and foremost, they need to have the gift:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.


Second, in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul tells us we should speak in tongues if it can be understood by the Body, ie if it can be interpreted. See, for example, verse 19:

Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Furthermore, we must remember why we have spiritual gifts - they are for building up the Body. I love Paul's literal body illustration in 1 Corinthians 12. Each believer has a spiritual gift(s) and all are important and play a part in the Body. If they work against each other, or if we are prideful in using them, then we have conflict within the Body.

Those are good scriptures, and make me wonder two things. Apportioned at who's will the believers or the Spirits? The way it reads is the Spirit's discretion, yet we have Christians saying to ask for this or that, which sounded like good advice, don't get me wrong. The other is that perhaps the Spirit would give to those for which they ask in which case I wonder if I have been given wisdom. After reading get wisdom and understanding with all your getting and might in proverbs I have prayed for wisdom and understanding very much. I would hesitate to go around saying that I have the gift of wisdom though because it seems to me that another would first tell me that I am wise or have wisdom. That may not be something that one concludes about themselves for obvious reasons.

I think the answer is more complicated than first appears.

From what I've read, it is certainly the Spirit giving the gift, at its discretion. I don't think that negates the fact that we can ask for a gift. Ask and ye shall receive. I don't believe the Spirit gives us whatever we want though.

So my answer is: a bit of both.