LAW

[jocor]

Nope, Ezekiel 36 doesn't say anything about a new covenant or the "Holy Spirit". Rather a new heart and spirit to transition God's people from the polytheism they had tolerated amongst themselves, to the monotheism under Moses' law that didn't slander God's name. This is Judaism in the time of the second temple. The world wasn't offered the Holy Spirit in general until Pentecost. It was the absence of the Holy Spirit amongst a fiercely monotheistic people bound by law that resulted in the Crucifixion of Christ. Those who could not accept Jesus is God were required by Moses' law to have Him put to death.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you ... Is this the indwelling Spirit of Yahweh which is holy? If so, then how is it different from the Holy Spirit?

 

[jocor]

Every man needs to rest a day every week.

Correct. Yahweh blessed and sanctified the day that rest is to occur (the 7th day of the week).

 

[jocor]

My bible says the law was added, until the Seed should come...

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


It is a reference to the last thing mention. The law.

The law of God was already being kept by Abraham, which he learned directly from walking with God.

That is how we are to learn today.

Walk before Me and be blameless!

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Same command.


The law was added, UNTIL the Seed should come.

Until means the law of Moses was a temporary condition that was satisfied by the Seed and has been fulfilled and therefore has vanished away. Hebrews 8:14


JLB

You are separating the "law" from its context, the Old Covenant, and focusing only on "the Law of Moses" as though that was the problem that Paul was addressing. You need to deal with verse 17 first to set the context. Once you realize that when Paul says "law" he is referring to the Old Covenant, then the rest becomes clear. The Old Covenant was until the seed should come. Once he came and died, the New Covenant took over for believers and the same law was to be written on their hearts and minds.

 

[Deborah13]

The omer offering fell on the first day of the week that particular year, but it varies from year to year. If the Jews are correct, then it is always offered on Abib 16. If we really wanted to memorialize the resurrection day, we should do it on Abib 16 each year, not every Sunday as a new Sabbath.

There is debate even among the Jews as to what sabbath is being spoken of. Whether it is the Passover, High Sabbath, or the seventh day sabbath. In the reading of Lev. and what I have read it is the seventh day sabbath as to complete the 50 days there is 7 sabbaths completed. It would always fall on Sunday.
http://www.karaite-korner.org/abib.shtml

Walking in truth and glorifying God requires obedience to His commandments which can be done anywhere in the world.

Unconverted Jews would have said they must come to Jerusalem. Many of them could care less what Yeshua said.

There is no NT command against bestiality, yet I'm sure most Christians would agree it is forbidden.

Any type of sexual activity other than a husband and wife would be fornication, would it not?

I wrote that in response to your saying, "Paul at other times did try to be in Jerusalem during the feasts. He was always trying to convert his Jewish people. At feast times there were large congregations of Jewish men for him to give the gospel message of the Messiah to."

It seemed to me you were implying that the only reason he attended the Feasts was to witness.

I do think that that was his main reason. If not why did he not go to Jerusalem for 3 yrs. Because the scriptures mention things like after the fast for the 'day of atonement' doesn't mean Paul felt that he needed to do these things. Paul said when he was with the Jews or Greek he became as them (not in sin of coarse but in things like food) so that he might bring some to Christ. If it is necessary for the believers in Messiah to do these things to show they are his or for any other reason then Paul lied to the gentile believers in Corinthians.

 

[JLB]

You are separating the "law" from its context, the Old Covenant, and focusing only on "the Law of Moses" as though that was the problem that Paul was addressing. You need to deal with verse 17 first to set the context. Once you realize that when Paul says "law" he is referring to the Old Covenant, then the rest becomes clear. The Old Covenant was until the seed should come. Once he came and died, the New Covenant took over for believers and the same law was to be written on their hearts and minds.

Here is the context.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:16-19


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,


The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed....

The Seed has come, the law being a shadow of the good things to come has vanished away, being obsolete.


The law was added.

Not the covenant but the law was added.


JLB

 

[jasonc]

You can argue about that with Yahweh. He is the one that inspired Zechariah 14:16-19.

Im a student of the torah. if one is to do torah, then one cant half step it. its not just the feasts that are going to be done see Ezekiel 40, Ezekiel 41, Ezekiel 42, until chapter 48. its mentions all the priestly functions. a temple must be built. most say that is the temple. a levite is the ONLY priest. therefore if there is a priest then why do need Jesus? as Jethro said jesus did fulfill the function of the high priest and completes the need of it.

 

[jocor]

There is debate even among the Jews as to what sabbath is being spoken of. Whether it is the Passover, High Sabbath, or the seventh day sabbath. In the reading of Lev. and what I have read it is the seventh day sabbath as to complete the 50 days there is 7 sabbaths completed. It would always fall on Sunday.
http://www.karaite-korner.org/abib.shtml

I am aware of the debate which is why I wrote, "If the Jews are correct, ..." Either way, since neither the Father, nor the Son, nor an Apostle changed the Sabbath command to memorialize the resurrection on the first day of the week, it is merely tradition that causes a believer to break Yahweh's command. That is the kind of tradition Yeshua rebuked the Jews for in Matthew 15 & Mark 7.

Any type of sexual activity other than a husband and wife would be fornication, would it not?

If that is the case, then the word "fornication" would include all sexual sins forbidden by the Law of Moses (the Law of Yahweh). So the NT would then be upholding the Law of Moses regarding sexual sins. If you want to include many laws under one word, then I would say that "love" would include the Sabbath command. I would also say, "love YHWH with all your heart" includes the Sabbath command. I would also say, "love thy neighbor" includes the Sabbath command.

I do think that that was his main reason. If not why did he not go to Jerusalem for 3 yrs. Because the scriptures mention things like after the fast for the 'day of atonement' doesn't mean Paul felt that he needed to do these things. Paul said when he was with the Jews or Greek he became as them (not in sin of coarse but in things like food) so that he might bring some to Christ. If it is necessary for the believers in Messiah to do these things to show they are his or for any other reason then Paul lied to the gentile believers in Corinthians.

I can't recall there being a reason given why Paul did not go to Jerusalem for three years. There was no need to go there for the Feasts since he could keep them wherever he was.

Paul never ate unclean meat for the sake of winning gentiles or Greeks. It would have been sin for him to do so.

What are you referring to about the "gentile believers in Corinthians"? If we are to do "these things" out of love for Yahweh and our neighbors, why would that make Paul a liar?

 

[jocor]

Here is the context.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:16-19


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,


The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed....

The Seed has come, the law being a shadow of the good things to come has vanished away, being obsolete.


The law was added.

Not the covenant but the law was added.


JLB

Whatever version you are quoting has changed the Greek word order.

Gal 3:17 τουτοG5124 THIS δεG1161 NOW λεγωG3004 [G5719] I SAY, διαθηκηνG1242 "THE" COVENANT προκεκυρωμενηνG4300 [G5772] CONFIRMED BEFOREHAND υποG5259 τουG3588 BY θεουG2316 GOD ειςG1519 TO χριστονG5547 CHRIST, οG3588 THE μεταG3326 AFTER ετηG2094 YEARS τετρακοσιαG5071 FOUR HUNDRED καιG2532 AND τριακονταG5144 THIRTY γεγονωςG1096 [G5756] WHICH TOOK PLACE νομοςG3551 LAW ουκG3756 ακυροιG208 [G5719] DOES NOT ANNUL ειςG1519 τοG3588 SO AS καταργησαιG2673 [G5658] TO MAKE OF NO EFFECT τηνG3588 THE επαγγελιανG1860 PROMISE.

If you are correct and Gal 3:19 means the law has come to an end, why, then, aren't all ten commandments abolished? Why just the Sabbath? Why does Paul say, "Do we then make void the Law by faith? God forbid. We establish (to stand, to make firm) the Law" (Romans 3:31)? The fact is, the Old Covenant is what ended.

 

[jocor]

Im a student of the torah. if one is to do torah, then one cant half step it. its not just the feasts that are going to be done see Ezekiel 40, Ezekiel 41, Ezekiel 42, until chapter 48. its mentions all the priestly functions. a temple must be built. most say that is the temple. a levite is the ONLY priest. therefore if there is a priest then why do need Jesus? as Jethro said jesus did fulfill the function of the high priest and completes the need of it.

Why are you bringing up Ezekiel when we are discussing Zechariah? And what are you saying about Ezekiel 40-48? Are you saying they won't take place in our future? If not, then what do they refer to?

 

[Gregg]

The Sabbath is not a "ceremonial law". It is a moral law which is one reason why it was included with the nine other moral commands of the Ten Commandments. It is totally immoral for someone to force another to work on the Sabbath when that person's Creator said not to work on the Sabbath.

jocor,

Did the Lord command Israel to 'remember the Sabbath' or to 'observe the Sabbath'?

 

[JLB]

Whatever version you are quoting has changed the Greek word order.

Gal 3:17 τουτοG5124 THIS δεG1161 NOW λεγωG3004 [G5719] I SAY, διαθηκηνG1242 "THE" COVENANT προκεκυρωμενηνG4300 [G5772] CONFIRMED BEFOREHAND υποG5259 τουG3588 BY θεουG2316 GOD ειςG1519 TO χριστονG5547 CHRIST, οG3588 THE μεταG3326 AFTER ετηG2094 YEARS τετρακοσιαG5071 FOUR HUNDRED καιG2532 AND τριακονταG5144 THIRTY γεγονωςG1096 [G5756] WHICH TOOK PLACE νομοςG3551 LAW ουκG3756 ακυροιG208 [G5719] DOES NOT ANNUL ειςG1519 τοG3588 SO AS καταργησαιG2673 [G5658] TO MAKE OF NO EFFECT τηνG3588 THE επαγγελιανG1860 PROMISE.

If you are correct and Gal 3:19 means the law has come to an end, why, then, aren't all ten commandments abolished? Why just the Sabbath? Why does Paul say, "Do we then make void the Law by faith? God forbid. We establish (to stand, to make firm) the Law" (Romans 3:31)? The fact is, the Old Covenant is what ended.

Brother,

The Ten Commandments didn't start with the law of Moses!

You are mixing the Eternal Law of God with the Temporary law of Moses.

Abraham, a Gentile, walked in God's laws and Commandments and precepts 430 years before the law!

The law of Moses was all the food laws and feast days and Levitical ordinances and ceremonial washings and special clothing requirements, as well as The Eternal laws of God with the appropriate animal sacrifice to offer when the law was broken.

The law of Moses was a complete contract that DOING ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OR BEING UNDER A CURSE.

So when the law of Moses vanished away, then what was left is what the original Abrahamic Covenant stipulations plus the promise of the Holy Spirit and all the giftings that the Holy Spirit fills each member with.

Abraham is the first member of the Church, the Ecclessia, the called out ones, which is why paradise was named after him.

But that's another subject.

The Law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come...


JLB

 

[Obadiah]

Whatever version you are quoting...

This is a good point that was being dealt with in another thread earlier today.

Please remember: ToS 2.7 states "All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc." Please start referencing which translation you are using when quoting scripture. This is a matter of law, not just our ToS, and it is also a matter of transparency to our readers to not make them search through countless translations to find the one you are quoting from if they want to read the scripture in it's context in that translation. This applies to all of us. Thanks.

 

[ezrider]

You are separating the "law" from its context, the Old Covenant, and focusing only on "the Law of Moses" as though that was the problem that Paul was addressing. You need to deal with verse 17 first to set the context. Once you realize that when Paul says "law" he is referring to the Old Covenant, then the rest becomes clear. The Old Covenant was until the seed should come. Once he came and died, the New Covenant took over for believers and the same law was to be written on their hearts and minds.

I am going to politely disagreed with you in the last of your statement. The law that is written on our hearts by the Spirit of God are not the same laws as the old covenant. The law of the old covenant was a law according to Sin and it was a covenant with death. The Law of the new covenant is not defined by Death, but rather by Grace, and it is a covenant with life through Faith.

 

[eddif]

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

As a gentile, I consider this is by a good acceptable Jewish author LOL.

What is the shadow and what is the reality / body casting the shadow . We have to choose whether the sabbaths and food laws are the reality or it is Christ.

It is not about what I believe, but about what Colossians says. The light of the glory of God shines on Jesus to cause a shadow back in history. The shadow is things of Law and creation. The law is a shadow to help you understand the coming reality of Jesus Christ (body is Christ). The law is not the reality casting a shadow figure that is Jesus (sorry Jesus is the body / reality).

(Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ).

(As we saw Jesus go into the heavens we are going to see him come again in the heavens) the reality.
IMHO the reality is about Jesus, and the shadow is about the moon monthly cycle. We watch the moon start as full moon and fade. Then we watch the crescent turn into a full orb again. Father, Son and Holy Spirit ( the realities) were at creation setting up the solar system to speak of the reality that exists. Every moon cycle should remind us of the coming again of Jesus Christ.

The ox was created as a clean animal dealing with corn, but the reality is a clean teacher and his
preparation of Word for teaching.

New moons speak of Christ Jesus.
Food laws speak of Christ as we eat his body and drink His blood (off in the future).
Physical food is a type of receiving clean Word from clean prophets, Jesus, Apostles, Bishops etc.
Man does not live by bread alone, but by Words from God.

The Law was a temporal shadow to speak of the coming Reality of Christ. The moon is still here and so is the Law, but we must perceive them for what they are (teaching tools given by God (that we might know about Him).
Romans 1:19-20

We can easily get tied up with shadows, and miss the realities / bodies.

Christ is the reality.

eddif

 

[eddif]

My bible says the law was added, until the Seed should come...

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


It is a reference to the last thing mention. The law.

The law of God was already being kept by Abraham, which he learned directly from walking with God.

That is how we are to learn today.

Walk before Me and be blameless!

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Same command.


The law was added, UNTIL the Seed should come.

Until means the law of Moses was a temporary condition that was satisfied by the Seed and has been fulfilled and therefore has vanished away. Hebrews 8:14


JLB

You done good LOL

The Word became flesh to knock at the door of our senses and seek entrance into our life.

The Word became so real, that he became a planter of seeds in us.

You done real good.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Help me with this

Hidden word is seed placed in a vessel and stored for use. Hidden word may not be in good damp good soil, but subject to a raven snatching it away.

The desperately wicked and deceitful heart is the clay vessel, that shows the transcending power of God.

Planted Word is a seed planted in a new heart that has become good ground to give productive growth.

The new mind of Christ is the fruit of the spirit that comes from the Isaiah 6 placement of coals in our heart being placed on our lips.

eddif

 

[jocor]

jocor,

Did the Lord command Israel to 'remember the Sabbath' or to 'observe the Sabbath'?

Both. Ex 20:8-11; 31:16. He also told us to "keep" the Sabbath.

 

[jocor]

Brother,

The Ten Commandments didn't start with the law of Moses!

You are mixing the Eternal Law of God with the Temporary law of Moses.

Abraham, a Gentile, walked in God's laws and Commandments and precepts 430 years before the law!

The law of Moses was all the food laws and feast days and Levitical ordinances and ceremonial washings and special clothing requirements, as well as The Eternal laws of God with the appropriate animal sacrifice to offer when the law was broken.

The law of Moses was a complete contract that DOING ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OR BEING UNDER A CURSE.

So when the law of Moses vanished away, then what was left is what the original Abrahamic Covenant stipulations plus the promise of the Holy Spirit and all the giftings that the Holy Spirit fills each member with.

Abraham is the first member of the Church, the Ecclessia, the called out ones, which is why paradise was named after him.

But that's another subject.

The Law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come...


JLB

I didn't say the Ten started with the Law of Moses. Please don't put words in my mouth in your attempt to discredit me. I believe ALL TEN existed before Moses. They are Yahweh's eternal law. You, however, try and teach the Sabbath started with Moses.

Abraham kept the Sabbath as well. It existed from day 7 of Creation. The Sabbath was made for Abraham as well as ALL men.

 

[jocor]

I am going to politely disagreed with you in the last of your statement. The law that is written on our hearts by the Spirit of God are not the same laws as the old covenant. The law of the old covenant was a law according to Sin and it was a covenant with death. The Law of the new covenant is not defined by Death, but rather by Grace, and it is a covenant with life through Faith.

It is the same law, but administered differently. The OT law was not "according to Sin". Sin is simply breaking the law. Even if you break New Covenant law, it is still Sin. The difference is, now the condemnation of death is removed for believers. The Spirit of Life defeats sin and death. We still sin and still die., but have a hope of a resurrection from the dead.

 

[JLB]

I didn't say the Ten started with the Law of Moses. Please don't put words in my mouth in your attempt to discredit me. I believe ALL TEN existed before Moses. They are Yahweh's eternal law. You, however, try and teach the Sabbath started with Moses.

Abraham kept the Sabbath as well. It existed from day 7 of Creation. The Sabbath was made for Abraham as well as ALL men.

I just stated plainly the Ten Commandments did not start with Moses.

The Ten Commandments didn't start with the law of Moses!

You are mixing the Eternal Law of God with the Temporary law of Moses.

Post 111

The Sabbath is part of the 10 Commandments.

The Sabbath started long before the 10 Commandments.


What changed by adding the law was the requirement of death, for breaking the Sabbath, while under Moses law.

The requirement for death for breaking the Sabbath did not exist before the law was added.

The requirement for death for breaking the Sabbath does not exist after the New Covenant was established by Jesus Christ.

Do you believe the New Covenant is for Abraham's natural descendants?


In addition, the Sabbath took on strict rules when the law of Moses was added.

These strict rules don't appear to be requirements in the New Testament writings of the apostles.

Does Messianic Judaism require that the narrow guidelines for keeping the Sabbath, as they are under the law of Moses, should apply to New Covenant believers?


JLB