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LAW

Gregg said:
Hello gr8grace3,
jocor replied in another thread [see above] discrediting my 'understanding of the law,' so I thought to see if he himself understands the law. With reason, the LORD made a change in what He wrote in stone. The difference in words regarding the Sabbath begs the question, 'Did the LORD change or modify the Law written in stone based upon man's action, or did He change the Law for another reason?'

I would prefer to withhold my answer until after jocor replies. "For Jehovah is our judge; Jehovah is our lawgiver; Jehovah is our king; He will save us" (Isa 33:22 LITV).

"And one shall say in that day, Behold, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is Jehovah; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation" (Isa 25:9), and "looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ," (Tit 2:13).
Click to expand...


I don't know about you, brother, but Don't serve Jehovah.

We serve Jesus!


Jesus Christ is Lord.

The name above every name is Jesus.

We lay hands on the sick in Jesus Name, not Jehovah.

If you want to say YHWH, that's great.

The problem is that has no vowels, so you can not pronounce.


Jehovah is a compound word that comes from:

Strongs # 3050 and Strongs # 1943

Look up those two Hebrew words and see what they mean together.



JLB
 
Gregg said:
Hello gr8grace3,
jocor replied in another thread [see above] discrediting my 'understanding of the law,' so I thought to see if he himself understands the law. With reason, the LORD made a change in what He wrote in stone. The difference in words regarding the Sabbath begs the question, 'Did the LORD change or modify the Law written in stone based upon man's action, or did He change the Law for another reason?'

I would prefer to withhold my answer until after jocor replies. "For Jehovah is our judge; Jehovah is our lawgiver; Jehovah is our king; He will save us" (Isa 33:22 LITV).

"And one shall say in that day, Behold, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is Jehovah; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation" (Isa 25:9), and "looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ," (Tit 2:13).
Click to expand...
Thank you Brother. I appreciate your time and will watch this. thanks for bringing up an angle I have never looked at or contemplated.Millions more to come Lord willing!
 
Deborah13 said:
My mistake, very sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean Corinthians but Acts.
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

The gentiles were given these instructions above. They were not instructed to eat kosher, or any of the other Laws of Moses, including a 7th day sabbath.

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Paul says for those who want to hear Moses, there are synagogues where they can go to hear Moses preached.
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The Gentiles were not told to not murder, steal, etc., in Acts 15:20. Yet, we all know they must obey those commands as well. Verse 21 begins with "For". It connects verse 21 with verse 20. The Gentiles were only give those four commands to start with "for/because" they would hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues and would learn the rest of Torah at that time. There were no churches back then. If you wanted to hear the Word read, you went to a synagogue.

However, you are defining loving YHVH and neighbor as including a specific day of the week as being only day that can be done as a day of rest with YHVH.
What was is your definition of the Sabbath day, it's purpose if you will?
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I didn't define the day. Yahweh did. I simply obey. The Sabbath day is the 7th day of the week. The ONLY day that was EVER blessed and sanctified for the purpose of ceasing work. This would provide a physical rest for the body; time to worship Yahweh; time to fellowship with those of like faith; time to study the Word; time to do Yahweh's pleasure rather than our own (Isa 58:13). It is a memorial of Creation and teaches us who it is that sanctifies us (Ex 31:13). It was and is the test commandment to see who will obey Yahweh (Ex 16:4).

Why would it have been a sin for Paul to eat food like he instructed the gentiles to do in Acts? If it would be a sin for Paul then it would be a sin for the WHOLE Body of Christ. There is no Jew or Gentile in the Body of Christ, they are all the same and have the same commandments and blessings.
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I do not know what you are referring to. Please provide a reference from Acts.
 
jocor said:
So, what you are saying is that we no longer need "a symbol to remind us of the creator"? What is a "NT sabbath"? Sunday?
Click to expand...
This was in the post:
"The Law was a temporal shadow to speak of the coming Reality of Christ. The moon is still here and so is the Law, but we must perceive them for what they are (teaching tools given by God (that we might know about Him)."

The Law is good if used lawfully. To define sin John the Baptist used the Law. Repentance from sin uses the Law and bad behavior of Gentiles and Jews. John the Baptist also said that you should believe in the one who comes after me. The answer / solution to finding out you are a sinner, is the sacrifice that Jesus was. The power to operate as a witness comes from Holy Spirit.
Repent of sins against the Father ( John's baptism)
Accept work of Jesus the Son
Be empowered for service the Holy Spirit

The sabbath can be whatever day it needs to be. I have worshiped with messianic Jews on Saturday and turned around and worshiped with denominational folks Sunday , taught bible Monday and Friday ( on my level) plus attended the pastors Wednesday night bible study, with posting here all days . We enter into Christ's continual rest. Jesus intercedes for us continually.

It is not about the ox; it is about us . We need to place our split hooves to the word to remove the chaff and chew the cud till we understand / digest the tough passages.

eddif
 
jocor said:
This is the absolute epitome of ignorance. May Yahweh forgive you!
Click to expand...


YHWH

We serve God the Father, but His Name is not Jehovah.

Jesus Christ is Lord!

To the Glory of God the Father.





Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

“Jehovah — False reading of the Hebrew YAHWEH.”
(“Jehovah,” Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1973 ed.)

Encyclopedia Americana:

“Jehovah — erroneous form of the name of the G-d of Israel.”
(Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 16., 1972 ed.)

Encyclopedia Britannica:

“The Masoretes who from the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or Elohim. Thus the artificial name Jehovah came into being.”
(“Yahweh,” The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 12, 1993 ed.)

The Jewish Encyclopedia:

“Jehovah — a mispronunciation of the Hebrew YHWH the name of G-d. This pronunciation is grammatically impossible.”
(“Jehovah,” The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 7, 1904 ed.)

The New Jewish Encyclopedia:


The Jewish Encyclopedia states that YHWH is "the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel", and describes the form "Jehovah" as "a philological impossibility".



Yah - strong’s number 3050

The other part of this compound word is:

Hovah strong’s number 1943




    • ruin, disaster
Another form for 1943 is:

havvah strong’s number 1942




    • desire
      1. desire (in bad sense)
    • chasm (fig. of destruction)
      1. engulfing ruin, destruction, calamity
KJV (15) - calamity, 4; iniquity, 1; mischief, 1; mischievous, 1; naughtiness, 1; naughty, 1; noisome, 1; perverse thing, 1; substance, 1; wickedness, 3;


# 1942 is from the word - hava'




    • to fall

“It is clear that the word Jehovah is an artificial composite.”
(“Jehovah,” The New Jewish Encyclopedia, 1962 ed.)
 
JLB said:
YHWH

We serve God the Father, but His Name is not Jehovah.

Jesus Christ is Lord!
Click to expand...

Why are you correcting "Jehovah", but not correcting "Jesus"? That most certainly is not the Son's name.
 
JLB said:
What is God's name?
Click to expand...

YHWH - pronounced ee ah oo eh - Yahweh

Jesus is the name above every name
Click to expand...

The letter J did not exist in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or English when Yahweh's Son was named at birth. "Jesus" is an impossibility for the Son's name. Even the 1611 KJV does not use "Jesus", but "Iesus".
 
jocor said:
The Gentiles were not told to not murder, steal, etc., in Acts 15:20. Yet, we all know they must obey those commands as well. Verse 21 begins with "For". It connects verse 21 with verse 20. The Gentiles were only give those four commands to start with "for/because" they would hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues and would learn the rest of Torah at that time. There were no churches back then. If you wanted to hear the Word read, you went to a synagogue.
Click to expand...

Paul wrote many letters to the churches in the different cities, he was not writing those letters to people in the synagogues. In those letters he was very clear about what was sin, including murder, adultery, backbiting, etc. The people called the body of Christ were both Jews and Gentiles and they met in their homes, as is clearly written in scripture. Many, if not most, of the people mentioned by Paul were Jews, both men and women, so they already knew Torah and may even had copies of it as the Bereans did. Timothy had a Jewish mother and grandmother and they had taught him but he was not circumcised until Paul did it because they were going to Jerusalem. Those letters from Paul and the others were shared with the other churches and at least some have become the major part of the NT. Revelation speaks of seven of these churches.

I didn't define the day. Yahweh did. I simply obey. The Sabbath day is the 7th day of the week. The ONLY day that was EVER blessed and sanctified for the purpose of ceasing work. This would provide a physical rest for the body; time to worship Yahweh; time to fellowship with those of like faith; time to study the Word; time to do Yahweh's pleasure rather than our own (Isa 58:13). It is a memorial of Creation and teaches us who it is that sanctifies us (Ex 31:13). It was and is the test commandment to see who will obey Yahweh (Ex 16:4).

I do not know what you are referring to. Please provide a reference from Acts.
Click to expand...

LAW

Young's Literal Translation
Act 15:18 `Known from the ages to God are all His works;
Act 15:19 wherefore I judge: not to trouble those who from the nations do turn back to God,
Act 15:20 but to write to them to abstain from the pollutions of the idols, and the whoredom, and the strangled thing; and the blood;
Act 15:21 for Moses from former generations in every city hath those preaching him--in the synagogues every sabbath being read.'

Paul says that in every city there were those preaching Moses to former generations. The Jewish Christians did not need these instructions because Moses had been taught to them already in the synagogues but the gentiles would not have known these things in verse 15:20, so they were instructed in them.

eddif said:
This was in the post:
"The Law was a temporal shadow to speak of the coming Reality of Christ. The moon is still here and so is the Law, but we must perceive them for what they are (teaching tools given by God (that we might know about Him)."

The Law is good if used lawfully. To define sin John the Baptist used the Law. Repentance from sin uses the Law and bad behavior of Gentiles and Jews. John the Baptist also said that you should believe in the one who comes after me. The answer / solution to finding out you are a sinner, is the sacrifice that Jesus was. The power to operate as a witness comes from Holy Spirit.
Repent of sins against the Father ( John's baptism)
Accept work of Jesus the Son
Be empowered for service the Holy Spirit

The sabbath can be whatever day it needs to be. I have worshiped with messianic Jews on Saturday and turned around and worshiped with denominational folks Sunday , taught bible Monday and Friday ( on my level) plus attended the pastors Wednesday night bible study, with posting here all days . We enter into Christ's continual rest. Jesus intercedes for us continually.

It is not about the ox; it is about us . We need to place our split hooves to the word to remove the chaff and chew the cud till we understand / digest the tough passages.

eddif
Click to expand...

You do have a way of bring the Word into a country person's understanding. :)
 
I prefer the freedom given to me in jesus. I can if I choose to do the shabat, or not to. I will do it to see but also I must take heed , unlike a gentile. this is a historical heritage to me. I have felt pull of it, to whit to forsake jesus and join my family.
 
jocor said:
YHWH - pronounced ee ah oo eh - Yahweh



The letter J did not exist in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or English when Yahweh's Son was named at birth. "Jesus" is an impossibility for the Son's name. Even the 1611 KJV does not use "Jesus", but "Iesus".
Click to expand...


Who added those vowels to YHWH?

If you want to add some vowels, then add theses -

YHWH = YeHoWsHuwa = Jesus



8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:8 - KJV



8] For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:8 – nkjv


JLB
 
Deborah13 said:
Paul wrote many letters to the churches in the different cities, he was not writing those letters to people in the synagogues. In those letters he was very clear about what was sin, including murder, adultery, backbiting, etc. The people called the body of Christ were both Jews and Gentiles and they met in their homes, as is clearly written in scripture. Many, if not most, of the people mentioned by Paul were Jews, both men and women, so they already knew Torah and may even had copies of it as the Bereans did. Timothy had a Jewish mother and grandmother and they had taught him but he was not circumcised until Paul did it because they were going to Jerusalem. Those letters from Paul and the others were shared with the other churches and at least some have become the major part of the NT. Revelation speaks of seven of these churches.
Click to expand...

I meant that at the time the Jerusalem council met in Acts 15, there were no churches (buildings). They met in synagogues on Sabbath and in homes throughout the week.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Master Yeshua Messiah, the Master of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly (Greek - sunagoge) a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;​

Young's Literal Translation
Click to expand...
Act 15:18 `Known from the ages to God are all His works;
Act 15:19 wherefore I judge: not to trouble those who from the nations do turn back to God,
Act 15:20 but to write to them to abstain from the pollutions of the idols, and the whoredom, and the strangled thing; and the blood;
Act 15:21 for Moses from former generations in every city hath those preaching him--in the synagogues every sabbath being read.'

Paul says that in every city there were those preaching Moses to former generations. The Jewish Christians did not need these instructions because Moses had been taught to them already in the synagogues but the gentiles would not have known these things in verse 15:20, so they were instructed in them.
Click to expand...

Now I know why I did not understand you. Paul was not the speaker in Acts 15:20. It was James. Why would the Gentiles need those things if the law was abolished? Three of those things are OT dietary laws.
 
jasonc said:
I prefer the freedom given to me in jesus. I can if I choose to do the shabat, or not to. I will do it to see but also I must take heed , unlike a gentile. this is a historical heritage to me. I have felt pull of it, to whit to forsake jesus and join my family.
Click to expand...

I have freedom in Messiah as well, but not to sin by choosing my own Sabbath Day. You do not need to forsake Messiah in order to obey Yahweh. He died for your disobedience to bring you to obedience and oneness with the Elohim of Israel.
 
JLB said:
Who added those vowels to YHWH?

If you want to add some vowels, then add theses -

YHWH = YeHoWsHuwa = Jesus



8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:8 - KJV



8] For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. Hebrews 4:8 – nkjv


JLB
Click to expand...

Joshua in Hebrew is either יהושׁע (Yehoshua). As you can plainly see, there is no secod heh (H). Your creative rendition "YeHoWsHuwa" is nonsense and non-existent in the Hebrew text.
 
jocor said:
There are no vowels added. YHW act as vowels in Hebrew. Josephus said the Name consists of four vowels. One need only pronounce each vowel.
Click to expand...


YHWH is the NAME!

YeHoWsHuwa = Jesus

The NAME above every name.


JLB
 
jocor said:
I have freedom in Messiah as well, but not to sin by choosing my own Sabbath Day. You do not need to forsake Messiah in order to obey Yahweh. He died for your disobedience to bring you to obedience and oneness with the Elohim of Israel.
Click to expand...
the pull is something YOU a gentile don't understand.when I read about the Hebrews and I think of my dad, aunt, uncle and grandparents doing some of those things. I feel robbed. they do know Hebrew if they still practice their faith. some do and some don't. dad doesn't. that is why in part Is stay away from messianic judiasm. I know of a jew who left the lord and came back. what if she died in that state?

its a whole different world in jewry when they do that then even messianic Judaism. ever hear of schull? that Hebrews teach school and also use the torah do base the lessons around. the center of that is the temple. Christians schools come close to that but they don't build a community for each other around it physically.
 
jocor said:
There are no vowels added. YHW act as vowels in Hebrew. Josephus said the Name consists of four vowels. One need only pronounce each vowel.
Click to expand...
so you speak biblical Hebrew? I don't and neither do I speak modern Hebrew.
 
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