Raptures – Tribulation

[CORE]

I dont address my own sin today because they have all been wiped clean. If i thought that way, i would find myself apologising to G-d 100s of times a day.

Ya, that's where I'm at...my sin is overwhelming me, but I can at least thank God and find comfort in his discipline...I'm thankful that he doesn't give me joy in the midst of my sin...

 

[Eugene]

But Josephus said . . .

Josephus said? ? Uh oh! Have you considered that in the seventh century BC God had already issued His judgment on Israel's backsliding? What were their sacrifices availing them after that? The dispersion sure put a hitch in the get-a-long of non godly religiousness. Were there still godly men writing and believing God? You bet, but their former sacrifices had ceased; they believed God is my thoughts.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Eugene]

Ya, that's where I'm at...my sin is overwhelming me, but I can at least thank God and find comfort in his discipline...I'm thankful that he doesn't give me joy in the midst of my sin...

Praise God dear brother. God continues to work in all of us, and whether we admit it we all need to submit to His leading of us in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

Blessings to you in Jesus' name.

 

[Kathi]

Where does this show this to be pre-trib? Couldn't this also pertain to a mid-trib. or post-trib rapture?

Perhaps but Revelation 3:10 is more important.Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial".It is not just the trials but "hour" of trial.

 

[CORE]

Do you have a specific request or I will just lift you up to the Father, the Holy Spirit knows, and we have the perfect mediator.

Thank you Deborah....thank you. I have been fighting alcoholism,and I should know better. I thought I could control it, but I can't. I can have a few and be ok, but eventually it gets to the point where it affects my judgement...I can now come to terms with the fact that even one drink will ultimately lead to destruction. This"disease" is so deceitful..I've come along way, but realize that no matter how hard I try to control it, it will lead to destruction. I can go months as a normal "drunk" without being drunk, but eventually, I get actually drunk and can't stop....I'm done...I have to give it up to the Lord. It will be hard especially knowing that I can have one or two beers and stop, especially with football season coming up.(it's nice to have a few beers and go home sober)...but eventually there always comes to that day when I can't and i keep drinking....

Thanks. I believe my public confession will help, but even now I'm under the influence. I need your guys to help. If I post weird comments past 12am, I'm probably drunk....I don't expect it to happen, but I want you to call me out on it if it does happen. I'm talking to my fiance now...she will help too...she's so supportive - a gift from God. She'll be happy to hear of my decision to give it up completely.

 

[Eugene]

Perhaps but Revelation 3:10 is more important.Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial".It is not just the trials but "hour" of trial.

Good verse dear sister, but doesn't John only see a portion of the church in heaven with Jesus prior to the tribulation?

 

[Eugene]

Thanks. I believe my public confession will help, but even now I'm under the influence. I need your guys to help. If I post weird comments past 12am, I'm probably drunk....I don't expect it to happen, but I want you to call me out on it if it does happen. I'm talking to my fiance now...she will help too...she's so supportive - a gift from God. She'll be happy to hear of my decision to give it up completely.[/QUOTE]
I'm praying for your deliverance also brother.

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you Deborah....thank you. I have been fighting alcoholism,and I should know better. I thought I could control it, but I can't. I can have a few and be ok, but eventually it gets to the point where it affects my judgement...I can now come to terms with the fact that even one drink will ultimately lead to destruction. This"disease" is so deceitful..I've come along way, but realize that no matter how hard I try to control it, it will lead to destruction. I can go months as a normal "drunk" without being drunk, but eventually, I get actually drunk and can't stop....I'm done...I have to give it up to the Lord. It will be hard especially knowing that I can have one or two beers and stop, especially with football season coming up.(it's nice to have a few beers and go home sober)...but eventually there always comes to that day when I can't and i keep drinking....

Thanks. I believe my public confession will help, but even now I'm under the influence. I need your guys to help. If I post weird comments past 12am, I'm probably drunk....I don't expect it to happen, but I want you to call me out on it if it does happen. I'm talking to my fiance now...she will help too...she's so supportive - a gift from God. She'll be happy to hear of my decision to give it up completely.

You have made a wise decision, if you need to don't be too proud to seek outside help such as AA. That program helped my cousin-in-law who never controlled it at all for years. He almost died (almost bled to death) before he started AA, he's been sober now for about 35 yrs. He stayed faithful to the program, read scriptures, and prayed a lot. Like you he had someone, his wife who was/is a believer, to support him, too.
Don't hate yourself but Hate the problem, Hate what it does to your relationships and your life. Get angry and fight! This addiction is not for you, a child of the King, a prince among men, a warrior in the King's army. You do not battle alone, He is right at your side. Praise the Lord for the work He is doing in you.
Prayers continue, my brother.

 

[Deborah13]

Josephus said? ? Uh oh! Have you considered that in the seventh century BC God had already issued His judgment on Israel's backsliding? What were their sacrifices availing them after that? The dispersion sure put a hitch in the get-a-long of non godly religiousness. Were there still godly men writing and believing God? You bet, but their former sacrifices had ceased; they believed God is my thoughts.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure what you are referring to in the 7 BC. Correct me if I am wrong but when God divorced Israel (not Judah) the 10 tribes went into captivity to Assyria in the years around 690 BC.
In Jeremiah's prophecy about backsliding Israel God calls them to repentance, He says He will do it. I believe this happened. Many returned to Judah over the yrs. We know Cyrus allowed all the people he conquered to worship as they pleased. Some of the Jews in Babylon returned to Jerusalem and Judea. I believe that there were others that were from the Northern Kingdom who returned from Assyria as well, as Assyria had become part of Babylon. They were living there when the Messiah came. Many were saved by the Gospel message that went out over the whole world in the apostles time and has continued to happen over the years since the cross.
Jer 3:14 Turn back, O backsliding sons, An affirmation of Jehovah. For I have ruled over you, And taken you one of a city, and two of a family, And have brought you to Zion,
Jer 3:15 And I have given to you shepherds According to Mine own heart, And they have fed you with knowledge and understanding.

We know that when the Northern Kingdom, Israel, backslid they forced out the Levites and other righteous ones. I'll just give you a link that I have found to be helpful with the dates and the scriptures.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/comm...topics/northern-kingdom-falls-to-assyria.html
Notice that the increase in population cannot be justified if only the ones from Babylon, that returned with Zerubbabel, are in Judea. Josephus also speaks of this in the Antiquities of the Jews, as does the scriptures.
I believe that when Jesus came and preached to them, all 12 tribes were represented in Judea and Jerusalem at that time. Absolutely no one was left out and after Pentecost the apostles took the message to all the Jews throughout the world.

 

[DRS81]

WHY?

Pre-trib

Pre-trib is what the anti-christ wants you to believe.

 

[Deborah13]

Pre-trib is what the anti-christ wants you to believe.

YLT
1Jn 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

So you believe that John didn't know what he was talking about when he said this to the people living then? You don't take this scripture literally?

1Jn_4:3 and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.
2Jn_1:7 because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist.

So then as John spoke the antichrist was 'he who is leading astray'.
John was talking to real people, living in that time about the antichrist 'he' in the world at that time.
Who is antichrist, Anyone who does not confess that Jesus the Anointed One came in the flesh.

Revelation does not mention 'the antichrist'.

 

[Eugene]

I'm not sure what you are referring to in the 7 BC. Correct me if I am wrong but when God divorced Israel (not Judah) the 10 tribes went into captivity to Assyria in the years around 690 BC.

That was 7th century BC. And not even rechecking I believe Daniel and Judah went to Babylon, and Jeremiah, Daniel's contemporary with Israel was dispersed to Assyria.
Jer_3:8 . . . her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote]

In Jeremiah's prophecy about backsliding Israel God calls them to repentance, He says He will do it. I believe this happened.

Why do you believe it to be so using scripture? Even though Jesus appeared to His own, they did not repent.
My understanding of this is that one day future all Israel shall be saved, and if you're familiar with the context of Romans, Chapter 9 speaks of Israel past, Chapter 10 Israel present, and Chapter 11 is Israel future.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Thanks Sister Deborah for your reply whether we agree or not.

 

[Kathi]

Good verse dear sister, but doesn't John only see a portion of the church in heaven with Jesus prior to the tribulation?

Prior to the tribulation or at the tribulation?You mean the beginning of the tribulation?
In Revelation 6-19 the Church is not mentioned at all.So it must be in heaven.

 

[DRS81]

YLT
1Jn 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

So you believe that John didn't know what he was talking about when he said this to the people living then? You don't take this scripture literally?

1 Jn 2:18 is describing the spirit of the antichrist, not the antichrist the person in the great trib. There is a difference there. ("even now antichrists have become many", is describing the spirit of the antichrist) (1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.) The Ant-Christ the person is in I believe Rev 13.

Scripture tells me the abomination of desolation of the antichrist occurs during Mid-trib in Matt 24:15.
Scripture also tells me the rapture will be in the middle of the seven year trib right after the sixth seal is open.

Isa 13:10 The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.

Matt 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:14-27 "But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything out, 16 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 17 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Rev 6:12-14 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

 

[Eugene]

Pre-trib is what the anti-christ wants you to believe.

I always thought the devil wanted me to think there was some good in me, and that there would be no need of a continued separation from the world; no benefit, no reward, and I am destined for the temptation to come upon the world regardless. Rev 3:10.

 

[Gary]

In Revelation 6-19 the Church is not mentioned at all.So it must be in heaven.

Revelation 6
11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
.

 

[Willie T]

YLT
1Jn 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

So you believe that John didn't know what he was talking about when he said this to the people living then? You don't take this scripture literally?

1Jn_4:3 and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.
2Jn_1:7 because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist.

So then as John spoke the antichrist was 'he who is leading astray'.
John was talking to real people, living in that time about the antichrist 'he' in the world at that time.
Who is antichrist, Anyone who does not confess that Jesus the Anointed One came in the flesh.

Revelation does not mention 'the antichrist'.

Ever back your car into a brick wall, Deb? It doesn't budge, does it?

 

[Eugene]

Prior to the tribulation or at the tribulation?You mean the beginning of the tribulation?
In Revelation 6-19 the Church is not mentioned at all.So it must be in heaven.

Before the tribulation begins, the 24 elders & four beasts are already present with Jesus in heaven. ref. Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6. Who are they?
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

[DRS81]

I always thought the devil wanted me to think there was some good in me, and that there would be no need of a continued separation from the world; no benefit, no reward, and I am destined for the temptation to come upon the world regardless. Rev 3:10.

Rev 3:10 is speaking of the Jews in the seven year great trib, not the christian church. Christian tribulation and God's wrath are not the same. The christian church will be saved from God's wrath not persecution. Make sure you do not confuse the two. Eugene is part of the christian church, and if Eugene makes it to the beginning of the seven year tribulation she will have to run from the tribulation that is coming. If Eugene avoids the tribulation that comes upon christians then she will make it to mid-trib rapture and also avoid God's wrath that is to come. But avoiding that tribulation will be extremely difficult. Pray that you will not be a part of that generation.

 

[Eugene]

Rev 3:10 is speaking of the Jews in the seven year great trib, not the christian church. Christian tribulation and God's wrath are not the same. The christian church will be saved from God's wrath not persecution. Make sure you do not confuse the two. Eugene is part of the christian church, and if Eugene makes it to the beginning of the seven year tribulation she will have to run from the tribulation that is coming. If Eugene avoids the tribulation that comes upon christians then she will make it to mid-trib rapture and also avoid God's wrath that is to come. But avoiding that tribulation will be extremely difficult. Pray that you will not be a part of that generation.

Your reply makes me wonder why Jesus didn't have John send seven letters to the angels of the Jews instead of the church in seven different locations in that case, especially since that portion of scripture in Rev 3:10 is addressed to the church in Philadelphia. Because thou (Not the Jews) hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation . .