Raptures – Tribulation

[JLB]

I am a post tribber. The rapture theory is based on an incorrect interpretation of 1Th 4:16-17, IMHO.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Verse 16 is definitely talking about the resurrection of the dead in Messiah. The "trump" is the "last trump" of 1Cor 15:52. That would be the last trumpet blown in Scripture, the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11.

Verse 17 begins with "Then". The Greek word is "epeita" meaning afterward or next. The Greek word "tote" means; then, at that time. "Tote" would have been more appropriate if the living were caught up at the same time as the dead or even shortly after. However, "epeita" was used instead. This word was also used in Gal 1:18 meaning three years later; in Gal 2:1 meaning fourteen years later; and in Ja 4:14 meaning an indefinite number of years later.

The proper understanding of this passage is that Yeshua will come to resurrect the dead when the seventh trumpet is blown (Rev 11:15). This resurrection of the saints is pictured in Rev 12:5. Those that are "alive and remain" are pictured in Rev 12:17. They are eventually killed by the beast (Rev 13:7) and resurrected at some point prior to Armageddon which takes place years later. Then Yeshua will come with all the saints to set up the Kingdom of Yahweh.

I do not believe there will be saints that do not experience the first death.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I just don't see any time lapse here, between the Resurrection and Rapture.

The Resurrection does indeed come first, we shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, clearly teaches this is one event, whereby we will all be together within a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Brother Mike said -

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(Rev 3:10)

If you look up the word "keep", you will find it to mean guard and protect.

Why would He need to "keep" us, if we were in heaven as you say?

Is there something in heaven that we will need to be "kept" from?

He will indeed keep us.

Just as he "kept" Noah when His judgement was being poured out. ...just as in the Days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of Man.

and not to mention Daniel, and the three Hebrew children...


Great scripture!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Brother Mike said -

There is a 7th angel (The bible counted angels, not the trumpets they blew) that ends the mystery of God. Tribulation. then the 6th seal and 7th seal have to be released. This sets the stage for Jesus coming that every eye shall see.

There is no resurrection event here. ZERO.

The Angels come with Jesus with a loud trumpet. (Trumpet after the 7th angel blows his) since Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation has ended.

Now your scripture that tells you what is suppose to be the last trumpet and that scripture must place the timing event you want.......

THERE ARE NONE!!!

LOL... That's funny!

If you actually read Matthew 24:31, you will see the Trumpet and the Coming of the Lord and the gathering unto the resurrection and rapture.

You won't find a trumpet where the scripture doesn't list one. Scripture is funny that way.

Here it is again for you -

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other . Matthew 24:31

How can a trumpet that was supposedly sounded 7 years prior to this one, be the last trumpet.



Do you believe the Resurrection of the dead in Christ comes before the tribulation?

Please just answer honestly.






the Lord Himself will descend from heaven ...with the trumpet of God the dead in Christ will rise first... same Resurrection as Matthew 24! Same King Coming!

Then the Rapture will take place just after the Resurrection!

We will all be caught up together...

The Last Trumpet sounds to signal the Coming King and the Resurrection!

This is what Matthew 24 describes.

This is what 1 Thessalonians 4 describes.

One Resurrection!

One Rapture!

One Coming!

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Eugene]

Lest we forget what the last trump is, and then just when the Lord’s Day is.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

 

[Brother Mike]

I am a post tribber. The rapture theory is based on an incorrect interpretation of 1Th 4:1God's wrath events, IMHO.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Verse 16 is definitely talking about the resurrection of the dead in Messiah. The "trump" is the "last trump" of 1Cor 15:52. That would be the last trumpet blown in Scripture, the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11.

Verse 17 begins with "Then". The Greek word is "epeita" meaning afterward or next. The Greek word "tote" means; then, at that time. "Tote" would have been more appropriate if the living were caught up at the same time as the dead or even shortly after. However, "epeita" was used instead. This word was also used in Gal 1:18 meaning three years later; in Gal 2:1 meaning fourteen years later; and in Ja 4:14 meaning an indefinite number of years later.

The proper understanding of this passage is that Yeshua will come to resurrect the dead when the seventh trumpet is blown (Rev 11:15). This resurrection of the saints is pictured in Rev 12:5. Those that are "alive and remain" are pictured in Rev 12:17. They are eventually killed by the beast (Rev 13:7) and resurrected at some point prior to Armageddon which takes place years later. Then Yeshua will come with all the saints to set up the Kingdom of Yahweh.

I do not believe there will be saints that do not experience the first death.

The bible mentions no 7th trumpet. We are delivered before the time of tribulation. There are 7 angels who have trumpets that sound Gods wrath events. We are not there. We are never put under subjection to Satan the church does prevail.

If you look up the word "keep", you will find it to mean guard and protect.

Why would He need to "keep" us, if we were in heaven as you say?

Is there something in heaven that we will need to be "kept" from?

He will indeed keep us.

Just as he "kept" Noah when His judgement was being poured out. ...just as in the Days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of Man.

and not to mention Daniel, and the three Hebrew children...


Great scripture!


JLB

Yes we are kept, agreed. We both take the victory position. Just like Noah saved by the ark, so is the word that now goes out to save many. One is taken, one left. That hour we know not when the Lord comes, if it's after tribulation then we can pin point it down to that last half hour in darkness and silence where people hide from the face of the lamb. For us, it's sudden and we escape the hour of trial upon the whole earth. The bodies of our passed brother and sisters come up first and we next to meet them while God deals with the unbelieving left on the plant. Satan no longer hindered by anointed believers who have been given authority to stop him in his tracks. We are not here brother. Our physical right to operate on the earth the kingdom of God must be removed.

 

[Edward]

I have to admit ... along time ago ...when I first believed and got saved and when I heard of the Marriage supper of the Lamb.... I thought it was Leg of Lamb...I do like leg of lamb ....then Then someone said what if it was fruit. And so If the lion lays down with the lamb I don't think we will be eating meat. But maybe fruit and Manna to snack on?

mmm i like leg of lamb too. I dunno, it's all speculation at this point beyond fruit and manna like you say, but I bet that there will be lots of surprises involved. It does make sense to me that, if we eat at all (we will) then I highly doubt that it would be restricted to just a couple items. This is the Lords dinner table we're talking about!

I can't help but feel like there will be lots of fish, and that's good because I like fish. Also...why wouldn't there be meat? If the Lord put meat here on earth for us to eat, why wouldn't He have meat in heaven too? I like a good steak, mmmmm.

I think maybe the thought that we wouldn't have meat in heaven was put forth as an idea from the animal rights activist type people. Don't hurt the poor little animals, God's too good to do that...?! Oh come on now, lol. That's just laughable I think.
Apparently, God likes the smell of a good steak cooking. It's in the OT and talks about it. So why not eat it too? I want a good steak when we get there! Praise the Lord.

 

[reba]

ok so who does the cooking and cleanup Samantha with a twitch of her nose?

Do the millions set at the same table... is there a 'head' table ? He is no respecter of persons who sets on His left and right?

He is the Manna and He is the Living Water

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 

[jocor]

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I just don't see any time lapse here, between the Resurrection and Rapture.

The Resurrection does indeed come first, we shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, clearly teaches this is one event, whereby we will all be together within a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.


JLB

I understand it to mean those that are alive and remain will all be caught up at the same time after their death and resurrection years later.

we shall be caught up together, with them in the clouds, ...

 

[Edward]

ok so who does the cooking and cleanup Samantha with a twitch of her nose?

Do the millions set at the same table... is there a 'head' table ? He is no respecter of persons who sets on His left and right?

He is the Manna and He is the Living Water

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Ohhh, that's right! Why do we think that girls are going to heaven too? Because they're such good cooks! Ah!! Revelation!! God bless all you girls! medium rare please...lol.

 

[jocor]

The bible mentions no 7th trumpet. We are delivered before the time of tribulation. There are 7 angels who have trumpets that sound Gods wrath events. We are not there. We are never put under subjection to Satan the church does prevail.

In Rev 8:2, seven angels are given seven trumpets. The first angel blows the first trumpet that sounds. The seventh angel blows the 7th trumpet that sounds.

You wrote, "we are delivered before the time of tribulation". How does that harmonize with Mt 24:29-31 in which the resurrection takes place at the sound of the great trumpet after the tribulation ends?

Paul said the resurrection is at the last trump. To me, that means there are no trumpets after that. There are no trumpets after the 7th angel blows that last trumpet.

If I understand your other posts, you are making Rev 4:1 be the resurrection/rapture trumpet. Is that correct?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.​

This doesn't refer to a trumpet, but a voice that sounded like a trumpet. It is also a statement directed only to John who was about to receive the prophecies.

 

[Deborah13]

jocor

 

[Eugene]

We are not there. We are never put under subjection to Satan the church does prevail. - - - We are not here brother. Our physical right to operate on the earth the kingdom of God must be removed.

Hi Brother Mike, just wanting to get your thinking as to who those saints that come out of great tribulation in Rev 7:14, or them during the tribulation that have the seal of God that are not allowed to be harmed?
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

[Brother Mike]

LOL... That's funny!

If you actually read Matthew 24:31, you will see the Trumpet and the Coming of the Lord and the gathering unto the resurrection and rapture.

You won't find a trumpet where the scripture doesn't list one. Scripture is funny that way.

Here it is again for you -

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other . Matthew 24:31

How can a trumpet that was supposedly sounded 7 years prior to this one, be the last trumpet.



Do you believe the Resurrection of the dead in Christ comes before the tribulation?

Please just answer honestly.

The trumpet is just a trumpet. The last sound of the Trumpet we are caught up. It's not the last trumpet the world will every hear.

the 7th angels just sounds off, ending Tribulation. Jesus said after tribulation He is coming with angels and more trumpets.

Trumpets start and alert of events just like in every other scripture they are mentioned.
At that time of Trouble, we are delivered, everyone written in the book, There is a resurrection event right in Dan 2.

The other event is after the 1,000 years, the dead are brought out and judged. We are not judged at this time.

So, Jesus shows up suddenly, no warning, the dead in Christ (First fruits) go up then us then the World is sealed for God to deal with and Satans last attempt before getting slammed.

In Rev 8:2, seven angels are given seven trumpets. The first angel blows the first trumpet that sounds. The seventh angel blows the 7th trumpet that sounds.

You wrote, "we are delivered before the time of tribulation". How does that harmonize with Mt 24:29-31 in which the resurrection takes place at the sound of the great trumpet after the tribulation ends?

Paul said the resurrection is at the last trump. To me, that means there are no trumpets after that. There are no trumpets after the 7th angel blows that last trumpet.

If I understand your other posts, you are making Rev 4:1 be the resurrection/rapture trumpet. Is that correct?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.​

This doesn't refer to a trumpet, but a voice that sounded like a trumpet. It is also a statement directed only to John who was about to receive the prophecies.

Your counting Trumpets like JLB. Scripture only counts angels. Trumpets sound and end events. I did not write we are delivered when the time of trouble starts, God did.

And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
(Exo 19:19)

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(1Co 15:52)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:16)

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
(Rev 10:7)

One more time. I did not say Revelation 4:1 was our rapture event. I said God also in 4 places in scripture also spoke as a trumpet sound. I just used that to compare.

The Lord HIMSELF shall descend with a shout the trump of God, with a booming voice of the archangel and we are caught up, and there is a resurrection event.

The 7th angel sounding off is not the same as the Lord doing it, no resurrection event when Jesus comes with many angels sounding trumpets until the 1,000 years is finished.

The day and hour we don't know, just like Noah whom they knew nothing until Noah shut the ark up but in this case one is taken, one is left.

At the end of tribulation we can time Jesus down to the last 1/2 hour of him coming because folks are running away to hide from him.

TWO EVENTS HERE. One Group is concerned with keeping the Sabbath, One group calls him Lord.

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 24:50-51)
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
(Mat 24:40-42)

6th and 7th Seal broken it's all done.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:29-30)
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(Rev 6:12-16)

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
(Rev 8:1)

Two events here. One, the 6th seal is released and everything goes dark, people try to hide from the face of the Lamb, they know He is on his way, the Earth goes silent for about 1/2 hour.

Other event, everything is fine, nobody knows a thing and Jesus comes to take those that call him Lord.

Blessings.

 

[Brother Mike]

Hi Brother Mike, just wanting to get your thinking as to who those saints that come out of great tribulation in Rev 7:14, or them during the tribulation that have the seal of God that are not allowed to be harmed?
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

They end up in the throne room as God takes them off the earth (Another rapture event, or they walked there)

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(Rev 14:3)

As for their purpose? I have read lots of things, but it's all speculation. Some believe they go out to preach, but nothing mentioned about that. God also has two witnesses preach in Rev 11 that caused so much trouble for the World that the whole world rejoiced when they were thought dead. Must have made a big impact.

And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
(Rev 11:10)

for those that dwell on the earth rejoice so much over God's prophets being killed, must mean there are not many good guys left.

144,000
I suspect they go out to teach the Testimony of Jesus.

During the time of Tribulation the Gospel is only shared by an angel who's job is to preach it. We are not there or mentioned.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(Rev 14:6)

I don't like speculation, best to Google it and find a version you feel settled about. Scripture does not say much about what their Job is, but because they have to be clean, I assume they have taken some type of priest roles for those left on earth.

Jesus Is Lord

Blessings.

 

[reba]

I don't like speculation, best to Google it

Wow context does really matter.... Thanks for the smile Brother Mike

 

[jocor]

the 7th angels just sounds off, ending Tribulation. Jesus said after tribulation He is coming with angels and more trumpets.

Are you aware that the Great Tribulation ends before the heavenly signs of the 6th seal begin (Mt 24:21,29) and that the Day of Yahweh begins after the heavenly signs of the 6th seal end (Joel 2:31)? The 7 angels sound after the Great Tribulation and during the Day of Yahweh. The Day of Yahweh begins when the 7th seal is opened.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:16)
...
The Lord HIMSELF shall descend with a shout the trump of God, with a booming voice of the archangel and we are caught up, and there is a resurrection event.

The 7th angel sounding off is not the same as the Lord doing it, no resurrection event when Jesus comes with many angels sounding trumpets until the 1,000 years is finished.

1Th 4:16 does not say the Lord will blow the trumpet, nor does it say he will shout with a booming voice of the archangel. He does neither.

TWO EVENTS HERE. One Group is concerned with keeping the Sabbath, One group calls him Lord.

What does that mean? Are you implying the Lord is not coming for those that keep the Sabbath, but only for those who call him Lord?

 

[Brother Mike]

What does that mean? Are you implying the Lord is not coming for those that keep the Sabbath, but only for those who call him Lord?

Have you studied any Post or Pre Trib raptures positions? I mean know both arguments in and out, every scripture and both sides interpretation of them?

There are variations of these positions. JLB for example takes the post Trib position, but does not take the popular Post tribs stance on a defeated Church.
I take the same victory position but a pre trib position. Others take the get beat down by Satan position.

If you knew my position then you would know what I meant about those that keep the Sabbath and those that call him Lord. It's easy to just assume one side knows your position already, which it should be that way if there is counter questioning, but not always that way.

You have to think like both positions to understand both.

Pre Trib folks see two events. Jesus coming for the Church, Jesus coming to judge and get the rest of the saints.
Post Trib folks see One Event. Jesus coming after Tribulation when all the dust settles and Armageddon gets ready for the slaughter.

Both positions end up in the same place in the end, just one missed tribulations, the trumpets and vials, the other side had to stay here through them.

So, "MOST" pre Tribbers split Matt 24 into two events of Jesus coming. One where we know down to the exact 1/2 hour. One to where nobody knows, He just comes for the church to make way for the Wrath of God.

Some Pre Tribbers do not split Matt 24, but throw the rapture event just before everything hits the fan, but not before lots of stuff goes down. (Mid trib?)
Gloria Copelands friend... ummm. Billye Brimm is one that takes this position.

The timing events all hinge of just a few passages.

The tares and Wheat. (Matt 13)
The eagles (Luke 17)
Event of the Son of Perdition (2 Thess 2)
Matt 24, split, not split.
Resurrection events (1 Cor 15)

How you look at God, will determine how you understand these.

JLB takes a very unique Post trib position, as it's mostly a pre trib position (Victorious church not touched by Satan)

I have pages on this forum on the same stuff, if there is any question I can answer, please ask.

 

[jocor]

I have pages on this forum on the same stuff, if there is any question I can answer, please ask.

I did ask, but you didn't answer. I asked what your Sabbath comment meant.

BTW, I am post trib. All saints will be here for the Great Tribulation. Most will die during it. The 144,000 believers will survive the first six angels sounding trumpets. The seventh angel signals the resurrection. Those that are alive and remain will be taken to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years. Afterwards they will be put to death by the beast of Rev 13. Then the seven vials will be poured out followed by Yeshua's return to set up the Kingdom on earth.

 

[Brother Mike]

I did ask, but you didn't answer. I asked what your Sabbath comment meant.

BTW, I am post trib. All saints will be here for the Great Tribulation. Most will die during it. The 144,000 believers will survive the first six angels sounding trumpets. The seventh angel signals the resurrection. Those that are alive and remain will be taken to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years. Afterwards they will be put to death by the beast of Rev 13. Then the seven vials will be poured out followed by Yeshua's return to set up the Kingdom on earth.

The Sabbath comment was just a split of two groups. One Group Jesus tells them to hope that they do not have to flee on the Sabbath day. Most Believers do not keep a Sabbath nor would be concerned about that. That group also did not address him as Lord. He tells that Group exactly when He will be coming back and what to look for. Down to the last 1/2 hour.

1st Group:
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(Mat 24:20)


The Second Group calls him Lord, and says my Lord delays his coming. He tells them to always watch and be ready because nothing is happening on the earth that has not happened before.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
(2Pe 3:3-4)
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
(Mat 24:40-44)

In the 2nd group some are asleep and not watching for the Lord's return for them.

The first group knows exactly when He is coming as they try to hide from him during that 1/2 of silence after the 6th seal.


When you talk of Saints, who are they, and how do they die?

Blessings.

 

[JLB]

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

They end up in the throne room as God takes them off the earth (Another rapture event, or they walked there)

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(Rev 14:3)

As for their purpose? I have read lots of things, but it's all speculation. Some believe they go out to preach, but nothing mentioned about that. God also has two witnesses preach in Rev 11 that caused so much trouble for the World that the whole world rejoiced when they were thought dead. Must have made a big impact.

And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
(Rev 11:10)

for those that dwell on the earth rejoice so much over God's prophets being killed, must mean there are not many good guys left.

144,000
I suspect they go out to teach the Testimony of Jesus.

During the time of Tribulation the Gospel is only shared by an angel who's job is to preach it. We are not there or mentioned.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(Rev 14:6)

I don't like speculation, best to Google it and find a version you feel settled about. Scripture does not say much about what their Job is, but because they have to be clean, I assume they have taken some type of priest roles for those left on earth.

Jesus Is Lord

Blessings.

Brother, why do you keep ignoring the scriptures.

Why do you keep changing the subject.

Please stop trying to redefine scripture.

You can't get around the truth any longer.

Show the scripture where the Resurrection of the dead is Before the tribulation.

The rapture happens with the resurrection.

It one event.

If you don't have a scripture that clearly shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ as being before the tribulation, then it's case closed.

Please stop posting scriptures from Revelation that have nothing what so ever to do with the resurrection and rapture.

The last Trumpet has been shown to be when Jesus returns to gather his people at the resurrection, after the tribulation.

Jesus returns once.

The 144, 000 have nothing to do with this discussion.

. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

This is clearly a POST-Trib scripture which shows the resurrection coming before the rapture and being one event.


Again, please answer the question.

Do you believe the Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens BEFORE the tribulation?

Yes or No ?


JLB