Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Under Grace not Under Law

If Salvation is unconditional then doesn't that mean there is no condition for man to be saved.

Why would Jesus say we need to repent and believe the Gospel if there was no condition to be saved.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15


Why would Paul teach us we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, to be saved if there is no condition to be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul said with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation!

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


Why would the Lord need to send people to preach the Gospel so a people can hear and believe and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus if there is no condition to be saved?


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:14-16


But they have not all obeyed the gospel.


If the condition to obey the Gospel is not required then why did Paul write in the scriptures?


Why do men have to suffer and be martyred, to bring the Gospel to the lost if there is no condition to be saved?



JLB
Merry christmas i am sending you a great big twist tie so you can keep twisting post to fit your belief.please study out these three words IT IS FINISHED
"It is finished" is the translation of the Greek term "tetelestai."

It is the perfect indicative mood of the Greek verb "teleō," which means "to bring to an end" or "to complete.

Christ paid the price Christ took the stripes on his back Christ took the crown of thorns on his head Christ took the mocking the nail the pain .. what conditions did you go through to be saved? you didn't.... you simply received the free Gift might i ask where is the word condition found in the Bible since were being technical paul also wrote
Titus 2:11-14King James Version (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might ' redeem us from all iniquity,' and {purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.} wow it is finished done complete the very moment we get saved the Blood cleans us takes our sins and cast them into the sea of forgetfulness .how deep is that sea as far as from the east to the west

we are saved By grace 1st the unmerited favor if conditions to be saved other than a true sincere heart was in place it would no longer be Grace . BUT LEGALISM " denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" follows salvation not preconditions . you put the cart before the horse ..the night i got saved i had just got off a two year probation with the federal court .for growing on a fed land 30 plants ..i tried the preconditions of salvation your presenting . i couldn't do it..because it was of me not of the Holy Spirit .. one thing i have noticed you never replied to your mocking of Eternal security osas , to be honest i found it in bad taste . even though i do not preach osas .i preach a know so salvation

i do hope you understand because i really have no desire to keep showing you salvation for us to be saved is unconditional IT IS FINISHED paid in full the free gift . we had 4 kids here yesterday .they opened gifts guess what there was no condition to these Gifts .they was given out of Love .
that is much what Christ did for us on the cross the free Gift of salvation ..that should be enough to make a old boy like you shout .
 
On this blessed day celebrating the birth of one babe that would bring the world redemption unto eternal everlasting salvation and life with the father God of light , 1 John 1:5 , let us not be led into the darkness Lord. Matthew 10:14, Matthew 20:19, Mark 6:11,
Luke 9:5,Acts 13:41, 2nd Peter 3:3,

In the precious name of the son, Jesus Christ, Amen.

John 3 (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet cast into prison. Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
He must increase, but I must decrease.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
 
Last edited:
Cutting from the bottom of the page to add at the top of this posting and for contextual purpose : Share This Page :)
:crossWhen it is good enough to share with Twitter it is good enough to share here at home. :amen


Statement of Faith

ChristianForums.net Mission Statement:
ChristianForums.net aspires to provide a place where Christians can come together in fellowship for encouragement, inspiration, and strength to help build each other up and grow in our walk of faith through honest and open discussion, study, reflection, and prayer.

ChristianForums.net desires to serve non-Christians, seeking answers to questions about Christianity, by sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ so they too may acquire the hope, joy, and peace that come from fellowship with the saving grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Doctrinal Statement
We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God.

We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, born of a virgin, totally without sin, God in human flesh, the One Who died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose again from the dead on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven, where He now intercedes for us who believe in Him.

We believe that all humanity is lost and born with a sinful nature, and can only be saved by a personal faith in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not by any human merit or performance.

We believe in a personal devil, called Satan, who, along with all his angels, called demons or evil spirits, are destined to spend eternity in hell, and now seek to deceive the world, defeat the believers, and destroy the work of God, but can be resisted by believers, who are protected by God and the intercession of Jesus Christ our Lord.

We believe that heaven is a real place where the saved will dwell forever, and that hell is a literal place of torment where unbelievers will be punished.

We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.

We believe in the spiritual unity of all genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
i do hope you understand because i really have no desire to keep showing you salvation for us to be saved is unconditional

Well Merry Christmas to you.

God bless you and your whole household.


JLB
 
Merry christmas i am sending you a great big twist tie so you can keep twisting post to fit your belief.please study out these three words IT IS FINISHED
"It is finished" is the translation of the Greek term "tetelestai."

It is the perfect indicative mood of the Greek verb "teleō," which means "to bring to an end" or "to complete.

Christ paid the price Christ took the stripes on his back Christ took the crown of thorns on his head Christ took the mocking the nail the pain .. what conditions did you go through to be saved? you didn't.... you simply received the free Gift might i ask where is the word condition found in the Bible since were being technical paul also wrote
Titus 2:11-14King James Version (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might ' redeem us from all iniquity,' and {purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.} wow it is finished done complete the very moment we get saved the Blood cleans us takes our sins and cast them into the sea of forgetfulness .how deep is that sea as far as from the east to the west

we are saved By grace 1st the unmerited favor if conditions to be saved other than a true sincere heart was in place it would no longer be Grace . BUT LEGALISM " denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" follows salvation not preconditions . you put the cart before the horse ..the night i got saved i had just got off a two year probation with the federal court .for growing on a fed land 30 plants ..i tried the preconditions of salvation your presenting . i couldn't do it..because it was of me not of the Holy Spirit .. one thing i have noticed you never replied to your mocking of Eternal security osas , to be honest i found it in bad taste . even though i do not preach osas .i preach a know so salvation

i do hope you understand because i really have no desire to keep showing you salvation for us to be saved is unconditional IT IS FINISHED paid in full the free gift . we had 4 kids here yesterday .they opened gifts guess what there was no condition to these Gifts .they was given out of Love .
that is much what Christ did for us on the cross the free Gift of salvation ..that should be enough to make a old boy like you shout .


When you get around to it, could you just answer the question I asked.

If Salvation is unconditional then doesn't that mean there is no condition for man to be saved.

Why would Jesus say we need to repent and believe the Gospel if there was no condition to be saved.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15


Why would Paul teach us we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, to be saved if there is no condition to be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul said with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation!

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


Why would the Lord need to send people to preach the Gospel so people can hear and believe and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus if there is no condition to be saved?


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:14-16


But they have not all obeyed the gospel.


If the condition to obey the Gospel is not required then why did Paul write in the scriptures?


Why do men have to suffer and be martyred, to bring the Gospel to the lost if there is no condition to be saved?



JLB
 
IT IS FINISHED
"It is finished" is the translation of the Greek term "tetelestai."

Yes agreed.

IT IS FINISHED!

He has done all that He is going to do, the rest is up to mankind, to obey the Gospel.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Man must meet the condition for salvation which is to obey the Gospel.


JLB
 
On this blessed day celebrating the birth of one babe that would bring the world redemption unto eternal everlasting salvation and life with the father God of light , 1 John 1:5 , let us not be led into the darkness Lord. Matthew 10:14, Matthew 20:19, Mark 6:11,
Luke 9:5,Acts 13:41, 2nd Peter 3:3,

In the precious name of the son, Jesus Christ, Amen.

John 3 (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet cast into prison. Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
He must increase, but I must decrease.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

Salvation is conditional, Lk.10. The gospel can and must be obeyed, Rom.10. Would anyone care to discuss this elsewhere?

To be deep in scripture is to cease being Catholic, Protestant, Jew and Calvinist
Rom.16:16
 
When you get around to it, could you just answer the question I asked.

If Salvation is unconditional then doesn't that mean there is no condition for man to be saved.

Why would Jesus say we need to repent and believe the Gospel if there was no condition to be saved.
true
 
Salvation is conditional, Lk.10. The gospel can and must be obeyed, Rom.10. Would anyone care to discuss this elsewhere?

To be deep in scripture is to cease being Catholic, Protestant, Jew and Calvinist
Rom.16:16
Why not discuss it right here? 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Let's look at Luke 10
Luke 10 Public Domain (KJV)

10 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.

5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.

6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,

11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.

15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:

24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


In order to prove your point with scriptures, being this is the rule in Theology forum, and in context, you'd have to show where in God's breath, his eternal knowing that inspired the words of the Word , how everything achieved by God's grace first, no acts of our own, are "Un-done". Redemption, rebirth as a new creation in Christ, etc....
Please proceed. After you explain what verse 42 means in context to that passage. And recalling this parable that answers for you in a different book of the inspired word of the Word.

Acts 2
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19
They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. 20 You, however, have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
 
Let's not forget that repent is a verb.
It means changing directions. IE turn around... changing attitude.... doing things differently... with a different focus.

Even the Thief on the Cross did this. He may have been restricted in his actions because of the nails but even he repented.
At the same time we have Paul who wrote Colossians 2:21-23 .
Meaning that religious practices are worthless.
James 1 however says that we should do something.

Faith resulting in true gratitude causes actions. What exactly those actions are remain undefined...on purpose.

1John 2:1-17 discusses exactly what a Follower/Telmudeem/disciple of Jesus' must do. Lack of hate (condemnation), lack of sinful lifestyle, and gaining in grace and knowledge of God.

These are the works every Christian must do.
Ordinances are fine to do if you can. Because they are part of having fellowship with other believers. (Hebrews 10:23-24)
Again more "works".

Then as we become engaged with our Sanctification (a never ending process) we become Givers... bestowing unmerited/undeserved favor of money, services, and ourselves upon all who ask...and even a few who don't.
Again more "works".

Sounds like a whole lotta works are required by God. Because according to John, Paul, and James anything else being promoted is something else.
 
Why not discuss it right here? 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Let's look at Luke 10
Luke 10 Public Domain (KJV)

10 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.

5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.

6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,

11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.

15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:

24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


In order to prove your point with scriptures, being this is the rule in Theology forum, and in context, you'd have to show where in God's breath, his eternal knowing that inspired the words of the Word , how everything achieved by God's grace first, no acts of our own, are "Un-done". Redemption, rebirth as a new creation in Christ, etc....
Please proceed. After you explain what verse 42 means in context to that passage. And recalling this parable that answers for you in a different book of the inspired word of the Word.

Acts 2
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19
They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. 20 You, however, have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.


Because I can't sit before the computer constantly.
Respectfully
 
true

there is a fine line between saved by grace vs universalism (even those who reject Jesus are saved)

"by relying on the grace of God" or "saved by grace through faith" is probably better wording than "unconditional"

i think the op was using "unconditional" to describe the power of God's gracious gift vs our own works/law-keeping saving us - God saving us vs us saving ourselves

so really we are probably all saying the same thing
To reiterate, this thread is not about Universalism, as a moderator mentioned pages back. Lastly on that area of note, no one here has posted support for Universalism. The charge of Universalism as something that is conflated with the actual Good News of Christ is false.

Now, to respond to your observation brother, false! Not true in the least.
Take the time if you would to read the resources linked in this thread. They can help to teach the Good News Gospel message far better than what has failed, on my part at least that should be obvious, to communicate without such resources.
Unconditional salvation is not Universalism. It is a reference to the God given fact that God calls whom he will to his son not because God created the world full of those born dead in the sinful state of the first Adam knowing in advance who he'd send to Hell and to Heaven. Some sites you'll find argue that in order to condemn the faith.

Rather, God in his grace, in the Hebrew it was charis, which means unmerited favor , delivered the new covenant that finished the old covenant of atonement for sins covered by the sacrifice of animals and their blood. Jesus in delivering that new covenant through God, when he was God, (Emmanuel, as the angel told Mary to call her arriving newborn son, which means, "God with us", so that all the Jews to whom he was sent would know that meaning when introduced to the man bearing it), sacrificed himself on the cross as the final pure unblemished lamb. This so as to take the sins of the whole world unto himself on that cross so that everyone who believes in him having accomplished that, having faith, coming into the covenant by choice, though it is God leading them because they are open to hear the good news that is in the Gospel, will be washed clean of their sins. And rather than walk this earth as they are now, dead , carrying the burden of their sins because their human nature is carnal and is not keen on hearing the gracious message of righteous invitation.
(1 Corinthians 2:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with eloquent words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”)

Humility, which is a characteristic of God-Jesus, read Philippians 2, allows that pride filled ego in those perishing to let go and know Jesus as the "I AM" God.

The teaching of revocable salvation, the salvation covenant Jesus died to bring to the world for all time till he arrives in his second coming, attempts to empty the cross of its power. It is a teaching that says, everything God's grace began can be overcome, thwarted, by the stronger will of humanity. Even to the point of those in Christ choosing to exit Christ, as it were, and go back to that dead sin filled husk that they washed away for eternity when they were reborn in Christ.

God says he knew us, those for whom the cross means something to the eternal state of our soul, before the womb. Psalm 139:16, Jeremiah 1:5, and John 17:1-26
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed

Jesus was prophesied in the old testament and fulfilled God's plan and purpose in the new. His sheep hear his voice and he knows their name. John 10.
Should one sheep in his flock stray, in Christianity it is a term "backslides" or for the Christian who "leaves" the faith, "backslider", his spirit seeks after them. How can it not? They are indwelt by him. They can leave the faith, however the faith , Jesus, who is God, does not leave them.
If Jesus was so easily put off as by the choice of a born again redeemed IN Christ Christian making a choice to backslide, what purpose would the sacrifice on that last sin altar and Jesus precious spilled blood mean? When it covered all sins and that's why he in his humility conceded to do his fathers will. We are blood bought!
Do we think our ego's can get a refund , go back to being dead in our sins when the self that was that died to that unconscious (of God) state at the moment we believed, repented, and were baptized in the holy spirit? Full refund! Just keep your receipt!
Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

No! Those who turn their backs on the cross, and live as if they're Caligula reborn are, as Jesus taught in that prior posted scripture, not one of his sheep. And they never were. They could have been but they were not able to discern his word, the Word, in order to bear faith and faith alone, to seek eternal salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Unconditional salvation means just what it says. There are no conditions to keep the grace of God within you as a redeemed born again believer. How come? Because the sinner didn't merit conditions they could afford to exude or exact in order to persuade God to arrive in his grace toward the whole world. How then can the redeemed claim to have greater power and make it a conditions contract wherein they are the author and signer of said contract, and can rescind the terms and conditions therein at their discretion?

When God KNEW THEM that would be humble and follow him before the world was created.
That's not possible.
We do good works when we are reborn in Christ because the good and holy sacred spirit of God, the helper, indwells us. John 14:26, Romans 8:9.
These behaviors, if you will, are a sign of our oneness with God.The nature of this world, carnality, has been replaced by the holy spirit nature of God. No, it isn't instantaneous that we change to that. It is a relationship we're in after all. And like all good relationships it grows with trust, and time. We do not work to keep the gift we didn't merit in the first place, yet were afforded by God's plan for his sacrifice on the cross to demonstrate his grace and offer his gift to those who would have the eyes to see and the ears to hear him call their name.
And in that respect anyone is able to hear God's voice calling them to redemption. Not everyone listens. That's not Universalism. That is the truth of God in Christ.

Conditional salvation , revocable salvation heresy, takes scriptures out of context, pastes them together in order to condemn the work on the cross. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

The conditional salvation teaching found in the world anywhere at all is false. As is revocable salvation heresy. Man can usurp God's plans for the sheep he knew before they were born? He wrote the names of such sheep in the Lamb's book of life before the world and man can say, tough God! I've got white out and I'm LEAVVVVVING!
That's spoken of by the Word in his word as well. Matthew 23:12
 
Because I can't sit before the computer constantly.
Respectfully
But where you'd like to discuss this , "somewhere else", can only be done on a computer. At any time at all.
And since you were in front of your computer to make the statement, you can at least answer the query put to your statement concerning Luke 10.
You followed the rule here, posted scripture with your statement, now prove it. At any time you have the time. Thanks.
 
But where you'd like to discuss this , "somewhere else", can only be done on a computer. At any time at all.
And since you were in front of your computer to make the statement, you can at least answer the query put to your statement concerning Luke 10.
You followed the rule here, posted scripture with your statement, now prove it. At any time you have the time. Thanks.
Unconditional election is one thing
Unconditional salvation is another.
 
When you get around to it, could you just answer the question I asked.

If Salvation is unconditional then doesn't that mean there is no condition for man to be saved.

Why would Jesus say we need to repent and believe the Gospel if there was no condition to be saved.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15


Why would Paul teach us we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, to be saved if there is no condition to be saved.



  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul said with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation!

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


Why would the Lord need to send people to preach the Gospel so people can hear and believe and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus if there is no condition to be saved?





But they have not all obeyed the gospel.


If the condition to obey the Gospel is not required then why did Paul write in the scriptures?


Why do men have to suffer and be martyred, to bring the Gospel to the lost if there is no condition to be saved?



JLB
cord1tif.jpg
your going to need this by the time your through with posting my my my the jailer said good sirs what must i do to be saved? believe (have faith} trust in the Lord and you and your household will be saved ..i dont know about his household but he got saved ....with out conditions next a person will have to go through a 12 step program to be saved ..Jesus said it is finished but you have to jump through hoops and confess your sins to man kind .the conditions have been paid ..Jesus said you must be born again -------born of the spirit and the water ..pretty tough conditions considering its the Holy spirit doing the work ==regeneration justified BY faith **********************:readbible
 
You posted this... how is not a work?
Yes, I did.
I think we're at cross purposes here. Humbling ones self in Christ, when humility is the characteristic of Jesus Christ, which is exampled when he is referred to as the Shepherd of the flock, Shepherds in his time being one of the most humble jobs there was, we're setting aside what was our ego, our pride, our carnal worldly hubris that thinks of, "me,me,me, I want it so I can enjoy it now!" nature, and we're allowing ourselves to be guided by the indwelling holy and sacred spirit of God.

That's not a sign of working to keep the free gift of God's grace and the eternal salvation his son paid dearly for on the cross on our behalf. He took the punishment upon himself on that altar that we would have suffered, dying in our sins unredeemed, so that we would not perish and have no life. John 3:16 , 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually .

While before that we were dead spiritually in the flesh and would have died in our sins after we died in the flesh. And suffered the consequences. Jesus was the propitiation for our sins. We don't work to earn that. Because if we could work to save ourselves now, after Jesus died for that, Jesus wouldn't have had to die on the cross. We could have just gone along working to save ourselves by killing animals every time we sinned. Asking God to let that sacrifice of a life redeem for that life's blood our own.
That was in the old testament works salvation. That was sacrificial atonement.

Jesus died once so that all the sins of the world would be covered under his blood. He was the propitiation, the appeasing sacrifice, for the sins of the world. One death that held in faith as able to transmute our fallen dead in our sins state that was one with the world, able to cleanse and renew us, give us rebirth IN Christ, that need only be believed, have faith in, in order to receive what is God's grace gift to the world.

Do you work to keep a gift someone gives you?
Same thing. Only this gift is the gift that keeps on giving.

When we work as redeemed In Christ Christians, we're working not to stay saved, but because the holy spirit is leading us to live humbly. Not arrogantly as we did when we thought this flesh and this one life was an opportunity to get it while we can and enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
 
true

there is a fine line between saved by grace vs universalism (even those who reject Jesus are saved)

"by relying on the grace of God" or "saved by grace through faith" is probably better wording than "unconditional"

i think the op was using "unconditional" to describe the power of God's gracious gift vs our own works/law-keeping saving us - God saving us vs us saving ourselves

so really we are probably all saying the same thing

Maybe.

Nevertheless, the condition remains for salvation; Believe.

Those who believe for a while then no longer believe, are no longer saved.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13


JLB
 
believe (have faith} trust in the Lord and you and your household will be saved .

Yes which is what I have been saying, that the condition for salvation is to believe.


Thanks for making my point, that unconditional salvation is no where to be found in the Bible.


JLB
 
Back
Top