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WHY DO WE SIN?

Yes, I agree. And it's much more than just a tendency. It's a mind set that we're born with. And a mindset that drives us to corrupt the desires of the flesh and then seek to satisfy those corrupt desires.

As far as the term is concerned, it looks like it's an invention of the NIV translators in past translations. And it seems they improperly called the flesh the source, or nature, of fallen man's sin, rather than the mindset of sin that the fallen person possesses, as Paul himself teaches right there in Romans 8, the very place where the NIV made the mistake of calling the flesh the sin nature. If one is going to use the term then it should be used in regard to the fundamental mindset of a man, not his flesh body.
Agreed.
I like how you termed the natural desires of the flesh as being corrupted.
God made everything good, but then everything was corrupted by the fall of Adam.
This is a good way of stating it.
We live in a corrupted world.

I checked and the NIV I have states the sinful nature. Romans 7:25
The NLT says the flesh.
The NASB says the flesh.
My Italian bible says WITH MY FLESH I SERVE THE LAW OF SIN.

I think it's just important that we understand it all as being the same.
 
Agreed.
I like how you termed the natural desires of the flesh as being corrupted.
God made everything good, but then everything was corrupted by the fall of Adam.
This is a good way of stating it.
We live in a corrupted world.

I checked and the NIV I have states the sinful nature. Romans 7:25
The NLT says the flesh.
The NASB says the flesh.
My Italian bible says WITH MY FLESH I SERVE THE LAW OF SIN.

I think it's just important that we understand it all as being the same.
Nah but Golf,now that is satanic .
God didn't make that
 
Yes. In the unsaved person.
And a mindset that tends towards the Spirit in the saved person. Two distinct mindsets. One of the unbeliever, and the other of the Spirit-filled believer.



No, I do not call that flesh. The mindset of sin entertains the things of the flesh. The mind set on the flesh is one thing. The flesh itself is another.

The mind set on the things of the flesh is what is done away with in Christ, but the flesh body remains (obviously). The mind set on the things of the flesh is replaced with a mind set on the things of the Spirit when we are born again.
OK.
So before salvation we have a mindset tending toward sin,
after salvation we have a mindset tending toward our spirit.
?

I'm thinking of Phil 4:8
Our whole mindset is changed to think of things from above.
 
I disagree.
It is written..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)

Yes.
It says that we SERVE the one to whom we present ourselves.
We born again do not serve satan, but God.

So your difference is the "reveling"?
If they were not reveling in it they wouldn't do it.

IOW, we might drink wine, but we don't get drunk.
We might dance, but what kind?
etc.

Admonitions and exhortations are for the safeguarding of the converted.
They are also for the weeding out of the impure.

The verse started out with "if any man be in Christ".
Is there sin "in Christ".
Absolutely not: and neither can there be sin in those in Christ.
I do understand your point.
It's just that I don't see this experientially.
Although I do see born again persons as being holy - set apart - and truly living to please God.

I thank you for continuing this long with me.
Jesus said, love God with all your strength and might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
His commands are not grievous.
It is not impossible, or He would not have commanded it.
I love my neighbor - but sometimes I think badly of them.
I love myself - but sometimes I feel discouraged or even worse.
I love God - but sometimes I find myself falling into the above...
The big sins are easy to be rid of...it's those smaller ones that creep up
that I also call sinning.
But, you know we won't agree on this and we should get off the topic.
 
I checked and the NIV I have states the sinful nature. Romans 7:25
The NLT says the flesh.
The NASB says the flesh.
My Italian bible says WITH MY FLESH I SERVE THE LAW OF SIN.

I think it's just important that we understand it all as being the same.
But it's not the same thing. 'Sin nature' and 'flesh' are not the same thing. That's the point. If one wants to identify the nature of sin, it is not the flesh and it's normal, biological desires and needs. It's the spirit of the person driving the body of flesh. The spirit of fallen man corrupts the natural desires of the flesh. The spirit of a man in union with God's Holy Spirit seeks to fulfill the natural desires of the flesh in an honorable and righteous way.

And, yes, your NIV may well say 'sin nature' instead of 'flesh'. My 1975 NIV does. But, apparently, later versions do not use that term any longer. https://biblehub.com/niv/romans/8.htm
 
OK.
So before salvation we have a mindset tending toward sin,
after salvation we have a mindset tending toward our spirit.
?
Almost.
After salvation we have a mindset tending toward the things of God's Spirit. God's Spirit in union with ours.

Romans 8:5,9
5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
 
if the Spirit of God lives in you.

That passage is true and ends with a conditional modifier. "If" the Spirit of God lives in you. But people stumble out of fellowship every day. So we have to do a King David and stand back up and repent and reapply the blood of Jesus to your life.

Blood covenants must be renewed daily.

A Friend, which sticks closer than a Brother is with us always...until our attention is not on Him. That's when we turn our back on thee Lord and go off to make our own decision. So the Lord would still be with us and never leave or forsake us, but since we have started to call the shots, the Lord stands down in His protections of us and allows us to do as we please. But He stays with us on the hope that we will again return our attention to Him...and let Him do things HIS way.

And remember after the fall the Lord cursed the earth? Well mans flesh body is made from earth. So the flesh body has fallen under the curse also and so, yes, sin resides in the flesh body. Maybe not all sin but a lot.

We have to overcome the flesh body and put it into subjection to our spirit. The way to do this, is y sacrificing something. Fasting. Sacrificing a weeks meals forces the flesh body into subjection. And it's not just meals that can be fasted from, we can fast from anything. Like take a fast from the internet and turn the darn thing off and the wifi. And all that time that you typically spend on the internet can be freed up for worshiping the Lord and praying closer to Him.

Fasts don't have to be 40 days or 21 days or enev a week. You can fastone meal, and give it to the Lord as a fast offering.
I put the Reesees peanutbutter cups back at the checkout one time. I wanted it! My flesh wanted it. I got to snatch the reesee cup out from under my flesh and denied my flesh that chocolate, Lol! It's not an earth shattering fast, but is a real gift to the Lord. Here Lord, you take this chocolate bar and I'll have one next time. Every little bit helps and these fasts are very much so real and valid fasts to the Lord because we did deny our flesh and made even a small sacrifice and gave this to our Lord as a gift.
 
If he thought of them as "carnal" he did not think of them as "in Christ".

??? But he did. As I showed you from his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul actually DID think of them both as "babes in Christ" and carnal.

This was a slap in the face from Paul to the Corinthians..
A sort of "get straight or go home" message for the adulterers and other types of sinners who professed faith in Christ but whose actions denied it.
If they wanted to walk as children of the devil, then quit calling themselves children of God.

But this isn't actually what Paul wrote to the Christians at Corinth - as I showed you from the many references I offered to you from his letter. Yes, he tells the Corinthian Christians to shape up, but he never denies that they are fellow believers but, instead, repeatedly confirms their membership in God's family in the midst of his criticism of them.

Your following exchange with electedbyhim is very concerning, Hopeful:

Are you sinless?
Yes, thanks be to God.

How do you mean you are sinless? In actual, practical daily living? If so, I would refer you to the apostle John's words:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.


Every child of God is, positionally, in Christ, fully justified and sanctified by him (1 Corinthians 1:30). But in their daily condition, the believer is in a process whereby their position in Christ is being more and more fully manifested in how they live. And so, we read all throughout the NT growth language:

Ephesians 4:14-15
14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,


Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

1 Corinthians 14:20
20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.

Colossians 2:19
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


If one is in a process of growth spiritually, they will necessarily be moving from a place of immaturity to maturity, from ignorance to full knowledge, from carnality to crucifixion. But what marks immaturity, ignorance and carnality? Sin, selfishness, spiritual inconsistency. Every believer moves through a process from spiritual immaturity, characterized by moral stumbling, mistaken beliefs, and weak faith, toward holiness, spiritual stability, and deep, settled conviction of the truth of God's word. It is the self-deceived person, then, who claims they are without sin, contradicting God in the making of such a claim.

2 Peter 1:4-9
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may BECOME partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and ARE INCREASING, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
 
You think negative thoughts are sin?
You have THAT MUCH control over your thoughts?
No I don't. But that does not change my answer.

As I said, sin is whatever misses the mark, the bulls eye, of God's will for us.
And unless He WANTS us to have negative thoughts, of course it would be sinful.
 
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I believe the old man was killed at it's "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24)
More like the "old man" was killed when we accept the sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross. Immersion / baptism is the funeral and burial of that dead man.
 
If you are still sinning, you are still the old man.
The way out of that situation is a real, true, permanent, repentance from sin; and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
What, pray tell, is your definition of "sin?"
 
You have mainly ONE verse that says David's mother committed adultery when he was conceived.
That did not happen. That is someone's INTREPRETATION of what that verse in Psalms means. The early church fathers interpreted it to say that sex between husband and wife was sinful. Neither of those ideas are correct.
 
You can quote the whole book and it doesn't change the nature of the intention as to be considered. Besides this is from elsewhere in the Bible where promises are given.
It is a book that has command upon command in it. The intention of a command is that you keep it. You can't just decide it's not a book of commands because it has suggestions in it too.
 
It is a book that has command upon command in it. The intention of a command is that you keep it. You can't just decide it's not a book of commands because it has suggestions in it too.
This is the view of theologians who know the difference between “wisdom literature” and prophesy and history and poetry. Its not my decision.
 
That did not happen. That is someone's INTREPRETATION of what that verse in Psalms means.
No its not. “In sin did my MOTHER CONCEIVE me” means only one thing. Its those whose used this means the baby is sinful who change the original meaning to an “interpretive one.”
The early church fathers interpreted it to say that sex between husband and wife was sinful.
No they didn’t because its not. “Let the marriage bed be HOLY” was the view of the believers til Augustine.
Neither of those ideas are correct.
Of course the obvious statement by David is correct. His mother is assumed to have committed adultery.
 
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