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It is true to say that the deceiver is very active, and indeed many Christians have been deceived by Satan over the years. In Matthew 8:28-34 we read of the two Gergesenes possessed with devils, and unfortunately many good Christians have been deceived by what was known in the beginning as the Toronto Blessing where people fall backwards and bark like dogs.

First things first, let us remind ourselves: -
1) The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, without repentance. (Rom 11:29 NKJV)
2) God is unchanging (Mal 3:6)
3) The counsel of the LORD stands forever. His plans are for all generations. (Psa 33:11)
4) God is unchanging. (Heb 1:12)
5) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Heb 13:8)
6) Every good gift and every perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. (Jas 1:17)

Let us keep looking to Jesus Christ who is the same yesterday, today and forever in faith believing and praying for a time of revival the same as when Jesus walked the earth and rid the two Gergesenes of their evil spirits back then, and He can do the same today if only people will turn to Him, our Lord, and Saviour, in faith believing.

God has not changed and neither have his promises, it is us and society that have changed, driven, probably unknowingly and unwittingly, by the temporal things of this world.
 
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It is true to say that the deceiver is very active, and indeed many Christians have been deceived by Satan over the years. In Matthew 8:28-34 we read of the two Gergesenes possessed with devils, and unfortunately many good Christians have been deceived by what was known in the beginning as the Toronto Blessing where people fall backwards and bark like dogs.

First things first, let us remind ourselves: -
1) The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, without repentance. (Rom 11:29 NKJV)
2) God is unchanging (Mal 3:6)
3) The counsel of the LORD stands forever. His plans are for all generations. (Psa 33:11)
4) God is unchanging. (Heb 1:12)
5) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Heb 13:8)
6) Every good gift and every perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. (Jas 1:17)

Let us keep looking to Jesus Christ who is the same yesterday, today and forever in faith believing and praying for a time of revival the same as when Jesus walked the earth and rid the two Gergesenes of their evil spirits back then, and He can do the same today if only people will turn to Him, our Lord, and Saviour, in faith believing.

God has not changed and neither have his promises, it is us and society that have changed, driven, probably unknowingly and unwittingly, by the temporal things of this world.
I agree with the general statement, but if anyone infer that requires the revelatory gifts are still here (after the Faith has been established, and the Bible completed), they are clearly wrong.

Christ personally chose those who established Christianity, the apostles, 120, Paul...and they did signs and wonders confirming they spoke the Word of God. Even when the Corinthians still manifested the gifts of prophecy, it was not on the same level as the apostles. Paul expressly denies what they did was "the word of God":

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. (1 Cor. 14:36-37 NKJ)

The Corinthian prophets had to acknowledge they did not speak the Word of God, it came to them through the apostles. Only the apostles channeled the Word of God, all other prophecy was not on the level of Scripture. The canon is closed, has been closed since the apostles went to be with the LORD.

In fact, when I participate in a Bible Study in a non-charismatic church and my fellow Bible Students are "on fire" sharing an insight the Holy Spirit gave them:

Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1 Cor. 14:26 NKJ)

I see NT Christianity in action, even if the gift of tongues has ceased. The Born Again experience revealed on the Day of Pentecost, is the SAME today. Love for God and His Truth and His People, and AWE of God, are the outward physical evidence one has been baptised in the Holy Spirit. Only the Twelve Apostles did the signs and wonders:

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:38-47 NKJ)

Those who divide the Body of Christ into "haves and have-nots" are doing the work of the Devil. Everyone receives the Holy Spirit equally, the same. There is only One Spirit and One Baptism. While believers receive different gifts, that is God's choice to empower them for the jobs they do in the church. There are no second class Christians, all are Chidren of God equally:



3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-- Christ--
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Eph. 4:3-16 NKJ)

Woe to those who sadden God's People:

22 "Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.
23 "Therefore you shall no longer envision futility nor practice divination; for I will deliver My people out of your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD."'" (Ezek. 13:22-23 NKJ)
 
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Christ personally chose those who established Christianity, the apostles, 120, Paul...and they did signs and wonders confirming they spoke the Word of God. Even when the Corinthians still manifested the gifts of prophecy, it was not on the same level as the apostles. Paul expressly denies what they did was "the word of God":

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. (1 Cor. 14:36-37 NKJ)

The Corinthian prophets had to acknowledge they did not speak the Word of God, it came to them through the apostles. Only the apostles channeled the Word of God, all other prophecy was not on the level of Scripture. The canon is closed, has been closed since the apostles went to be with the LORD.

In fact, when I participate in a Bible Study in a non-charismatic church and my fellow Bible Students are "on fire" sharing an insight the Holy Spirit gave them:

Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1 Cor. 14:26 NKJ)

I see NT Christianity in action, even if the gift of tongues has ceased.
In other words, as the Corinthian prophets etc. did NOT speak the Word of God, the "psalms, teaching, revelation, interpretation" they did, is the SAME as what happens today in a "non-charismatic Church Bible Study when believers share insights the Holy Spirit imparted to them."

He who has ears to hear, let him hear:

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."
4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants-- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant--
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
(Isa. 56:3-7 NKJ)
 
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I agree with the general statement, but if anyone infer that requires the revelatory gifts are still here (after the Faith has been established, and the Bible completed), they are clearly wrong.

Christ personally chose those who established Christianity, the apostles, 120, Paul...and they did signs and wonders confirming they spoke the Word of God. Even when the Corinthians still manifested the gifts of prophecy, it was not on the same level as the apostles. Paul expressly denies what they did was "the word of God":

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. (1 Cor. 14:36-37 NKJ)

The Corinthian prophets had to acknowledge they did not speak the Word of God, it came to them through the apostles. Only the apostles channeled the Word of God, all other prophecy was not on the level of Scripture. The canon is closed, has been closed since the apostles went to be with the LORD.

In fact, when I participate in a Bible Study in a non-charismatic church and my fellow Bible Students are "on fire" sharing an insight the Holy Spirit gave them:

Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1 Cor. 14:26 NKJ)

I see NT Christianity in action, even if the gift of tongues has ceased. The Born Again experience revealed on the Day of Pentecost, is the SAME today. Love for God and His Truth and His People, and AWE of God, are the outward physical evidence one has been baptised in the Holy Spirit. Only the Twelve Apostles did the signs and wonders:

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:38-47 NKJ)

Those who divide the Body of Christ into "haves and have-nots" are doing the work of the Devil. Everyone receives the Holy Spirit equally, the same. There is only One Spirit and One Baptism. While believers receive different gifts, that is God's choice to empower them for the jobs they do in the church. There are no second class Christians, all are Chidren of God equally:



3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-- Christ--
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Eph. 4:3-16 NKJ)

Woe to those who sadden God's People:

22 "Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.
23 "Therefore you shall no longer envision futility nor practice divination; for I will deliver My people out of your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD."'" (Ezek. 13:22-23 NKJ)
I do not care what you agree with, nor do I care to read about the false teaching that denies God's unceasing love. All I will say is that the eternal loving God knows His own.
 
I do not care what you agree with, nor do I care to read about the false teaching that denies God's unceasing love. All I will say is that the eternal loving God knows His own.
Don't recall denying God's unceasing love. Can you point out where I did that?
 
Don't recall denying God's unceasing love. Can you point out where I did that?
You haven't. I am stating a truth that God loves the righteous and hates wickedness. What is wrong is to cast the blame on the unchanging God instead of putting the blame where it belongs on those who follow the deceiver.
 
No good reason EXCEPT context, explicit statement the disciples fulfilled the prophecy in the 1st century:

15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:16-20 NKJ)

The author wanted to make it clear the apostles truly believed Christ and preached the true gospel, God proving by confirming signs.

Recall there were eventually 120 founding apostles and prophets "who believed and manifested these signs."

Christ isn't speaking only to the Twelve. He is speaking to the Seventy or more that followed Him, whom He personally chose to be His disciples, and sent them out on this mission. These "signs" proved to them which of the group truly believed, and God approved of, showing His approval by the accompanying signs.

We don't know how many disciples Christ is speaking to at this time, but it was certainly more than seventy as God the Father answered His prayer. But they were all selected by Christ and sent out by Him, in the 1st century:

1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
2 Then He said to them, "The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.
3 "Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves.
4 "Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road.
5 "But whatever house you enter, first say,`Peace to this house.'
6 "And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you.
7 "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house.
8 "Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.
9 "And heal the sick there, and say to them,`The kingdom of God has come near to you.'
10 "But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say,
11 `The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.'
12 "But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. (Lk. 10:1-12 NKJ)

Just as we cannot appropriate to ourselves what Christ said to the Seventy, neither can we insert ourselves into the group Christ was speaking to, instructing them on how to discern who among them truly believed, and preached the true gospel.

You know what? I praise the Lord for the experiences that He has given me.

The person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a doctrine. You have a fairly decent schtick about all of this but it doesn't faze me because I know better.

You've had so much truth put in front of you and it's like you just don't hear it and go off into fantasy and confusion.
 
You know what? I praise the Lord for the experiences that He has given me.

The person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a doctrine. You have a fairly decent schtick about all of this but it doesn't faze me because I know better.

You've had so much truth put in front of you and it's like you just don't hear it and go off into fantasy and confusion.
There have been 2000 years of planned confusion. This confusion is highly organized and presented as truth. When we run up against todays version the presenter has studied the volumes of error.

I missed this thread for whatever reason. It could just wear out a person trying to address left out material / proofs. The foundation OP needs (I am at a loss for words).

Edward ask me questions. You and I have different views on some things, but we work at seeking / presenting truth.

A new thread may be the best way. A slower entry into the subject.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
You know what? I praise the Lord for the experiences that He has given me.

The person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a doctrine. You have a fairly decent schtick about all of this but it doesn't faze me because I know better.

You've had so much truth put in front of you and it's like you just don't hear it and go off into fantasy and confusion.
My dad had a saying ," They could talk the horns off a billy goat " :hysterical
 
Can you give me a link to the definition of the word continuism ? I can not find a definition for this word continuism . :shrug Is continuism a false word :chin ?
Acts 2:13
13. Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

These (others) continue to this day.
Is the Gentile inclusion included in this thread? The same signs happened that day.

eddif
 
Experiences prove something to us, but not others.

Scripture alone is the true authority.

But as for myself, I took Paul's counsel to heart and tested my experiences by scripture. I am satisfied they are the same as in the NT, and that God is with me:

5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. (2 Cor. 13:5-6 NKJ)
I agree.
(Do you really think the word "disqualified" clearly simulates the word "reprobates" from the KJV?)
 
I agree.
(Do you really think the word "disqualified" clearly simulates the word "reprobates" from the KJV?)
Scripture ( Word) became a flesh man - Jesus
Jesus spoke
Jesus became a quickening Spirit (2nd Adam)

Romans 8:16 kjv
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Word yes
Jesus yes
Romans 1:20 yes
The quickening Spirit Yes

eddif
 
Scripture ( Word) became a flesh man - Jesus
Jesus spoke
Jesus became a quickening Spirit (2nd Adam)

Romans 8:16 kjv
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Word yes
Jesus yes
Romans 1:20 yes
The quickening Spirit Yes

eddif
Was that a reply to my post?
 
In other words, as the Corinthian prophets etc. did NOT speak the Word of God, the "psalms, teaching, revelation, interpretation" they did, is the SAME as what happens today in a "non-charismatic Church Bible Study when believers share insights the Holy Spirit imparted to them."

He who has ears to hear, let him hear:

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."
4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants-- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant--
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
(Isa. 56:3-7 NKJ)
Also, when a Pastor of a non-charismainia church preaches Scripture in an expository manner, that is the prophetic Word of God. He assumes the role of the prophet, bringing forth the very Word of God.

NT Christianity, exactly as it exists in the Bible, here today for everyone to partake!

He is the equal of the Corinthian prophets. While those soundly in the faith must judge if the prophecy is in accord with the Holy Scriptures, it is prophecy in the truest sense:

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. (1 Cor. 14:29 NKJ)
 
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Sometimes, quite often in fact, I find it hard to understand what people are saying.
Well good.
Most times I do not say things the way people can understand them. I try.

Jesus used parables to conceal ( so that: hearing they hear not and seeing they see not). We can use parables to reveal, but my box of understanding needs to be presented in another's box of understanding.

Being of one mind is easily said and requires the Holy Spirit to get it done. for_his_glory has said ( if what eddif says is not understood, ask him to say it another way).

If I say it in plate tectonics we (eddif or other interpreters) may can move the understanding to biology or especially human anatomy and physiology.

What is said about preachers is said about oxen in the law of Moses. I can unwind that if needed.

Symbolism is where I am, but getting it into another's secrets of their heart is tough.

eddif
 
By the way, this thread is about spiritual gifts. Psalms, hymns, spiritual songs teach theology and maybe energy cycles inside us. Sheep goats lost coins are not usually about the spiritual truth being taught. Anoucements, daily scripture, a testimony about a farm, a sermon,can open a person's hidden secrets. Have you got your ears on good buddy? LOL

eddif
 
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