Mary was born with a sinful nature.

[follower]

However, I believe that when the Holy Spirit entered into Mary's womb, he created a miracle that produced Jesus as the second Person of God taking on human flesh without taking on any of its sinfulness.

Nothing from above, not one iota of Scripture, says Jesus is a second Person of God ever.
Man's traditions, not always or hardly ever in line with God's Word may say that.

 

[follower]

THE SPIRIT OF GOD MATERIALIZED HIMSELF, understand?

Rather the Father created a body for Jesus in the womb, as written.
The Father's Doing.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It is corrupt/ corrupted by sin.
Trust God's Word concerning this.

What sin can skin and bones commit ?
You don't blame your paint job when your can runs bad.

Our back-and-forth has been in the arena of the flesh of those reborn of God still containing sin. (their conclusion, not mine)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Rather the Father created a body for Jesus in the womb, as written.
The Father's Doing.

I would rephrase that, saying, "the Father created a body for the Word in the womb, who was then named "Jesus".

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

No. Jesus did not imply they were disobeying God, nor the will of God.

He Showed A Better Way, always. The Truth. They did not know yet.

Lack of knowledge about Jesus is no excuse for their attempt to interrupt his ministry, to "seize him," which means to "arrest" him.

 

[follower]

Lack of knowledge about Jesus is no excuse for their attempt to interrupt his ministry, to "seize him," which means to "arrest" him.

Not at all sure "arrest" is the same thing.
But sure yes that this event was for Yahweh's Glory , for Truth to be shown certainly.
"Who is My mother and My brother and My sister"?

 

[tdidymas]

Nothing from above, not one iota of Scripture, says Jesus is a second Person of God ever.
Man's traditions, not always or hardly ever in line with God's Word may say that.

What are you driving at?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Hey

Something to consider...

Adam and Eve were ignorant of good and evil, that's what made them sinless. It's the state of innocence we should be considering here. It's not that they couldn't sin. They showed us that they were very capable of sinning. But with that one sin, (eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), they also lost there innocent state. Maybe that's what we inherit.

Babies are born in this same state of innocence. God calls them innocent, not knowing their left from their right. Jewish tradition teaches that a child loses this state of innocence at age thirteen. 'Bar mitzvah' means son of the Law. "Bat mitzva" for woman. At that point, without the proper faith, they are considered lost. I believe that the correct biblical understanding is a state of innocence is that it depends on ones condition, not ones age.

Macarthur did a few good sermons on this topic called "the salvation of babies who die" Parts 1 and 2.

Just for the record, and for what it's worth, I believe that Jewish tradition teaches this sinful nature is passed down through man's seed. I could be wrong on the source though. I believe that idea may be more like a teaching tool. While technically true, it points to spiritual truth. I don't know.

I'm sure the death blow is being born with what will eventually be the knowledge of good and evil.

When? Kids grow up fast these days, so, I suppose it's different for everybody. Some mentally handicapped people may never reach that condition.

Out of time.

Dave

@Dave, rather than going to other sources, I prefer to go to the Scriptures in discussing childhood "innocence." We have had four children, four grandchildren, and now two great-grandchildren. What does the Bible say about the subject?

Psa 51:4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God has inspired David to say that he has been conceived in sin in his mother's womb.

All of my descendants came out of the womb self-centered, which I believe is the definition of "sin." For example, babies love to be the center of humans' attention.

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Our "natural" condition since the fall into sin is spiritual death, but believers' supernatural condition is spiritual life from the death of sin. But one other passage describes the human sinful condition that God remedies for true believers through Jesus:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Therefore, babies are NOT innocent but ARE sinners who need to be taught who their Creator is.

 

[JLB]

@Dave, rather than going to other sources, I prefer to go to the Scriptures in discussing childhood "innocence." We have had four children, four grandchildren, and now two great-grandchildren. What does the Bible say about the subject?

Psa 51:4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God has inspired David to say that he has been conceived in sin in his mother's womb.

All of my descendants came out of the womb self-centered, which I believe is the definition of "sin." For example, babies love to be the center of humans' attention.

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Our "natural" condition since the fall into sin is spiritual death, but believers' supernatural condition is spiritual life from the death of sin.

One other passage describes the human sinful condition that God remedies for true believers through Jesus:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Therefore, babies are NOT innocent but ARE sinners who need to be taught who their Creator is.

How is a 1 year old baby taught what sin is?

 

[Corn Pop]

Mary said she has a savior. A savior for what?

And Mary said, “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,..."