Limited Atonement - TULIP

JLB said:

Do you believe what Jesus said?

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
John 12:32-33

• And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Jesus draws all people to Himself for salvation.

Whether they choose to believe or not is up to them.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2


These words are from Jesus Christ and are referred to as the truth.

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The truth is, you did not answer my question.

JLB said:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


He is the propitiation for our sins and for the world.


He is the atonement; the price, the means by which God is appeased or satisfied for the sins of the world, as well as our sins.

Our sins and the world covers all people.

This price was paid for all. Unfortunately not all will be saved be cause each person must choose to believe.

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So you are a universalist and no one will go to hell.

Not sure why you just cannot answer the question.

JLB said:

I’m a Christian; a follower of Jesus Christ.

I don’t recognize man made names to label people.

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If Jesus dies for every person whoever lived, why is there a hell?

The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood.

Think about that for a minute.

JLB said:

The price for everyone’s salvation was paid for by Jesus Christ at the cross.

Not everyone will believe.


Do you confess your sins to God, so as to be forgiven?

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The price for everyone’s salvation was paid for by Jesus Christ at the cross.
Not everyone will believe.

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The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood if you believe that everyones salvation was paid for.

Meaning that those who would not believe will go to heaven.

You do not see a flaw in that?

Do you confess your sins to God, so as to be forgiven?

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Not sure what that has to do with anything.

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: WHOSE HEART THE LORD OPENED, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul". (Acts 16: 14)

"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that GOD WILL GRANT THEM repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:25, 26)

These two verses clearly show God being the one who causes people to come to Him. I believe election is a mystery---but is two-sided (like a two edged sword). All (John 3:16) are called to come to Christ---but only some are chosen. Do I understand it? No---I do not. To a mind using human logic it seems "unfair". "How can ALL be called---but only SOME be chosen (the elect)?" But as was pointed out by someone above, "none can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them". Jesus also says in John 17 that he has lost NONE of those that THE FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM. In John 21 the net is thrown out and DOES NOT BREAK----and all 153 fish are drawn to shore. I believe this 153 represents the ELECT---NONE of them will be lost---they were pre-ordained (just like the fish in the net) to be redeemed and brought to Heaven. it is a total mystery that none of us can fully understand---we are finite beings trying to understand the will of an INFINITE BEING. That is impossible. One day we will understand, even if we cannot grasp it now.

JLB said:

Unbelief disqualifies a person from salvation.

The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

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That is really horrible theology and the parable does not teach that.

JLB said:

Yes that’s exactly what Jesus taught.

That’s exactly what Paul taught.

That’s exactly what Hebrews taught.

Thats exactly what Peter taught.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

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Belief is a gift from God. it does not come from self.