A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[GodsGrace]

Ridiculous and ignorant of facts.
Billions of people have died never hearing of Christ and therefore no call was made. IT'S A FACT.

Aside: Yeah, I know you believe Muslims can be saved by another gospel you hold (said R.C. gospel of men or your own personal gospel you will not defend)

God has revealed Himself to all men.
Not all men have heard His call.

Whether or not you care to believe this is irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your statements confuse me sometimes … What do you mean “IF God changes our heart” …

• Ezekiel 36:26 [CSB] "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
• Philippians 2:13 [CSB] For it is God who is working in you both to will and to work according to his good purpose.

… do you believe these Bible verses or don’t you? Neither John Calvin nor any Reformed Theologian wrote them.

I was leaving and this came up....

IF GOD CHANGES OUR HEART....
You said God changes our heart so we could love Him.

If God had to change our heart in order for us to love Him...
it wouldn't be true love.

I might have stated this already, but I think it's really important.
Good night.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Yes for their sins

VS​

Nothing external caused God to do anything, thats Blasphemy.

By saying that God predestinated certain people to burn in hell "for their sins", you are saying that their sins caused Him to predestinate them to burn in hell. I mean, what do you mean by "for their sins" if not "because of their sins"? And by saying, in addition to that, that "nothing external caused God to" predestinate them to burn in hell, you are blaspheming God by saying that their sins are not external to God.

 

[Iconoclast]

So you see how I just cornered Iconoclast, I take it.

In your dreams 2

 

[Iconoclast]

I was leaving and this came up....

IF GOD CHANGES OUR HEART....
You said God changes our heart so we could love Him.

If God had to change our heart in order for us to love Him...
it wouldn't be true love.

I might have stated this already, but I think it's really important.
Good night.

Another direct denial of scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why is God wrathful about anything that comes to pass if He "from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"?

Another poster who has come to help God make plans, and tell God if He can have a Divine wrath

 

[Paul E. Michael]

God is wrathful at things because He wants to be

There you are contradicting your claim that God predestinated certain people to burn in hell "for their sins". Out of the one side of your mouth, you are saying that God predestinated them to burn in hell because of their sins, whereas out of the other side of your mouth, you are saying that God predestinated them to burn in hell because He wanted to.

 

[Iconoclast]

God has revealed Himself to all men.
Not all men have heard His call.

Whether or not you care to believe this is irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

Yes FF, it is clear she does not have a grasp on why this is significant, but she has commentated on it as if she knows what is being discussed 2

 

[Paul E. Michael]

According to TULIP, certain people were from all eternity predestined to not burn in hell

Showing once again you have no understanding of the teaching.You can only make false caricatures.

Did God from all eternity predestine certain people to not burn in hell? Yes or No?

I just cornered @Iconoclast

In your dreams 2

You're still cornered into stonewalling against the question I asked you, Iconoclast:

Did God from all eternity predestine certain people to not burn in hell? Yes or No?

Iconoclast: <NO ANSWER>

Even your buddy brightfame52 answered it, and in the affirmative:

Yes

Why can't you do likewise, Iconoclast? By answering Yes, brightfame52 is repudiating your claim that it is a "false caricature" to say that TULIP teaches that God from all eternity predestined certain people to not burn in hell.

Perhaps you don't like that I said I cornered you. Fine. Technically you cornered yourself by the hastiness and shoddiness of your thinking.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Please dont lie on me

LOL, what?? "Lie on" you??

 

[brightfame52]

VS​

By saying that God predestinated certain people to burn in hell "for their sins", you are saying that their sins caused Him to predestinate them to burn in hell. I mean, what do you mean by "for their sins" if not "because of their sins"? And by saying, in addition to that, that "nothing external caused God to" predestinate them to burn in hell, you are blaspheming God by saying that their sins are not external to God.

Again nothing caused God to do anything, that's Blasphemy !

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Again nothing caused God to do anything, that's Blasphemy !

You said that people's sin caused God to predestinate them to burn in hell.

 

[brightfame52]

There you are contradicting your claim that God predestinated certain people to burn in hell "for their sins". Out of the one side of your mouth, you are saying that God predestinated them to burn in hell because of their sins, whereas out of the other side of your mouth, you are saying that God predestinated them to burn in hell because He wanted to.

Right God does things His Way because He wanted to, He doesnt need to answer to anyone, especially you. Ps 115:3

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

He was pleased to make some folk for eternal glory and some folk for eternal hell for their sins, whats it to you ?

 

[brightfame52]

You said that people's sin caused God to predestinate them to burn in hell.

Dont lie, Nothing caused God to do anything except His Own Purpose. It was His Own Purpose to make people to condemn them for their sins.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God has revealed Himself to all men.
Not all men have heard His call.

The facts speak for themselves.
1) Billions of people died never hearing of Christ
2) The Bible says one must have faith in Christ of salvation
God has NOT REVEALED Himself in such a way as to give billions of people a chance to believe and be saved

Now, you believe in WORKS salvation and your previous comment that Muslims can be saved without Christ reveal your theology is another gospel of salvation not spoken of in Scripture. Perhaps you got your idea from your holy father the pope, but not from scripture.

Aside: Anyone here been saved without Christ? How was this done? Wondering never gives the process for salvation without Christ (maybe because it's not scriptural), yet she espouses it. I know the R.C.s believe they save themselves via faith in Christ and works ... but Wondering presents a new gospel. Gal. 1:8

 

[Paul E. Michael]

God does things His Way because He wanted to

But out of the other side of your mouth you said God predestinated people to burn in hell BECAUSE OF their sins--your phrase: "for their sins".

 

[Fastfredy0]

Nothing caused God to do anything except His Own Purpose.

If that is true in an absolute sense then either:
A) God causes peole to sin (i.e. God caused Joe to kill Sam)
or
B) man is the first cause of sin ... in which case God does react to that (Joe killed Sam to which God will react; either forgiving or condemning)

 

[electedbyHim]

God is wrathful at things because He wants to be, everything God does is according to His own will and pleasure.

Agreed.

The Lord is Sovereign.

 

[Iconoclast]

You're still cornered into stonewalling against the question I asked you, Iconoclast:

Did God from all eternity predestine certain people to not burn in hell? Yes or No?

I am not corned anywhere. God has predestined the elect to be conformed to the image of the Son.
rom.8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?

I do not see Hell mentioned,do you? I am really cornered....

 

[Paul E. Michael]

I am not corned anywhere.

I did not say you are corned. I said you are  cornered. And you still are cornered, as you're still stonewalling against the question I've been asking you:

Did God from all eternity predestine certain people to not burn in hell? Yes or No?

Iconoclast: <NO ANSWER>