Baptism in the Spirit: The experience

[jaybo]

The man was made first, and Eve was made to be his helper.
Eve sinned first.
We are not to allow women to usurp authority over the man for those reasons.

We are under a New Covenant. (At least some of us are).

 

[jaybo]

In my Strong's Concordance, "perfect" means "perfect".

Get a new concordance. "Perfect" on the KJV means "complete". You are confused.

 

[Cnkw3]

Where does your knowledge of speaking in tongues come from?

The Bible. In the Bible a tongue was a real language someone could speak that had no training in it what so ever. That would be like me going over to Russia right now and teaching everyone in fluent Russian even though I ve never had a day of it in my life. ”Tongues” that your kind dish out are gibberish. They are not languages being used to a specific people. Ive seen and heard it all before.

Have seen the Gift of Tongues in operation? Do you have any practical knowledge of the Gift of Tongues?

The Bible gives me all the knowledge i need to know if what Im witnessing is genuine or not and no I ve never seen a genuine tongue spoke. Just the gibberish.

 

[Cnkw3]

So you're still using the rigid thinking of the law? Again, Paul wrote that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 That is quite clear.

I explained that in another post. The church/body has many members but not all have the same roles. This is like you being a hand and being mad at the eyes because they can see and you cant. You would be going…that’s not fair! Why do they get to see and I don’t?

Again, this is not the 1st Century CE, when women were close to being chattel. Can you give a logical reason for women to be excluded from any role in the church? Are they too stupid? Does God not reveal His wisdom to them?

Did I say women DIDNT have a role in the church? No. I just said that the Bible clearly states that women are not to have a teaching and preaching role over men. If there are men in the audience they are to do the teaching. God said it not me.

Why were there women who led churches in their homes in Paul's time? Were they violating God's law but Paul forgot to call them out?

Give me examples and we will look at it?

 

[jaybo]

In my Strong's Concordance, "perfect" means "perfect".

Get a new concordance. "Perfect" on the KJV means "complete". You are confused.

 

[jaybo]

The Bible. In the Bible a tongue was a real language someone could speak that had no training in it what so ever. That would be like me going over to Russia right now and teaching everyone in fluent Russian even though I ve never had a day of it in my life. ”Tongues” that your kind dish out are gibberish. They are not languages being used to a specific people. Ive seen and heard it all before.

The Bible gives me all the knowledge i need to know if what Im witnessing is genuine or not and no I ve never seen a genuine tongue spoke. Just the gibberish.

You're wrong. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 14:14, "If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive."

I have spoken in tongues for 45 years, so why should I believe you? You clearly don't have that particular gift. Apparently the Bible hasn't given you all you need to know.

 

[Cooper]

So you're still using the rigid thinking of the law? Again, Paul wrote that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 That is quite clear.

Again, this is not the 1st Century CE, when women were close to being chattel. Can you give a logical reason for women to be excluded from any role in the church? Are they too stupid? Does God not reveal His wisdom to them?

Why were there women who led churches in their homes in Paul's time? Were they violating God's law but Paul forgot to call them out?

You are right to say this is not the 1st Century CE. Back then, boys went to synagogue school where they were taught to read and write and were taught the scriptures. These days, thank goodness, girls get the same education as boys. God made us equal in his sight, and we are all sinners in the sight of God, but unfortunately, old traditions die hard.

 

[Cooper]

The Bible. In the Bible a tongue was a real language someone could speak that had no training in it what so ever. That would be like me going over to Russia right now and teaching everyone in fluent Russian even though I ve never had a day of it in my life. ”Tongues” that your kind dish out are gibberish. They are not languages being used to a specific people. Ive seen and heard it all before.

The Bible gives me all the knowledge i need to know if what Im witnessing is genuine or not and no I ve never seen a genuine tongue spoke. Just the gibberish.

The God-given blessing was gibberish to those without understanding back then as well. For this reason, we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you and ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; (Col 1:9 NKJV)

 

[jaybo]

You are right to say this is not the 1st Century CE. Back then, boys went to synagogue school where they were taught to read and write and were taught the scriptures. These days, thank goodness, girls get the same education as boys. God made us equal in his sight, and we are all sinners in the sight of God, but unfortunately, old traditions die hard.

I agree with almost all that you wrote, with one exception. We are not all sinners in the sight of God, only those who have not accepted Christ.

 

[Cooper]

Get a new concordance. "Perfect" on the KJV means "complete". You are confused.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (G5046) yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (1Co 2:6-7 KJV)

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Total KJV occurrences: 19

 

[Walpole]

I agree with almost all that you wrote, with one exception. We are not all sinners in the sight of God, only those who have not accepted Christ.

Here is Scripture refuting your assertion...


St. Paul writing to his young disciple describing himself: "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1 Tim 1:15)


St. John the Apostle: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)


St. James to the faithful to whom he is writing: "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded." (James 4:8)

 

[Cooper]

I agree with almost all that you wrote, with one exception. We are not all sinners in the sight of God, only those who have not accepted Christ.

I thought we were sinners saved by grace. (Sorry.)

 

[hawkman]

The Bible. In the Bible a tongue was a real language someone could speak that had no training in it what so ever.

Yes, speaking in tongues is a real language. As the Spirit gives the utterance, no training necessary.

That would be like me going over to Russia right now and teaching everyone in fluent Russian even though I ve never had a day of it in my life.

Why was the Gift of tongues given? The answer is in there.

The Bible gives me all the knowledge i need to know if what Im witnessing is genuine or not and no I ve never seen a genuine tongue spoke. Just the gibberish.

To witness the Gift of Tongues in action you need to place yourself in a location where it happens.

If you have any questions about the Gift of Tongues, I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Hopeful]

Get a new concordance. "Perfect" on the KJV means "complete". You are confused.

Those who strive for completion almost always say that about the receivers of perfection.

 

[Hopeful]

I thought we were sinners saved by grace. (Sorry.)

You can be an ex-sinner saved by grace.

 

[jaybo]

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (G5046) yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (1Co 2:6-7 KJV)

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Total KJV occurrences: 19

1 Corinthians 2:6-7, "Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory." NET

Translator's note on "mature": In extrabiblical literature this word was applied to an initiate of a mystery religion (BDAG 995 s.v. τέλειος 3, gives numerous examples and states this was a technical term of the mystery religions). It could here refer to those who believed Paul’s message, the mystery of God, and so be translated as “those who believe God’s message.”

Believe what you want. I rely on the NET translation more than others, one of the reasons being the excellent translator's notes. Notice it is written in the language you and I use and understand: 21st Century English.

Here are other good modern translations...

NIV: " We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began."

NRSVue: "Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are being destroyed. But we speak God’s wisdom, a hidden mystery, which God decreed before the ages for our glory."

NASB: "Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;"

Notice that your concordance gives the meaning as "complete", not "perfect".

 

[Cooper]

1 Corinthians 2:6-7, "Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory." NET

Translator's note on "mature": In extrabiblical literature this word was applied to an initiate of a mystery religion (BDAG 995 s.v. τέλειος 3, gives numerous examples and states this was a technical term of the mystery religions). It could here refer to those who believed Paul’s message, the mystery of God, and so be translated as “those who believe God’s message.”

Believe what you want. I rely on the NET translation more than others, one of the reasons being the excellent translator's notes. Notice it is written in the language you and I use and understand: 21st Century English.

Here are other good modern translations...

NIV: " We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began."

NRSVue: "Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are being destroyed. But we speak God’s wisdom, a hidden mystery, which God decreed before the ages for our glory."

NASB: "Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;"

Notice that your concordance gives the meaning as "complete", not "perfect".

With God, nothing is complete until it is perfected.

 

[Cooper]

You can be an ex-sinner saved by grace.

But still a wretch, and far from being perfected.

 

[Cooper]

Those who strive for completion almost always say that about the receivers of perfection.

I am 77 years old and gave my life over to Jesus when I was ten years old. I was baptised (full immersion) by my request when I was twelve years old. I sought the gifts of the Spirit in my late teens, (not tongues) there are better gifts, and God still has not completed his work in me. I am still growing in faith while I write. The Lord has to complete His work in me, I still have to grow in grace, and I am far from being perfected. The work may never be complete until I reach heaven's glory. Thanks for reading.

 

[Cooper]

1 Corinthians 2:6-7, "Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory." NET

Translator's note on "mature": In extrabiblical literature this word was applied to an initiate of a mystery religion (BDAG 995 s.v. τέλειος 3, gives numerous examples and states this was a technical term of the mystery religions). It could here refer to those who believed Paul’s message, the mystery of God, and so be translated as “those who believe God’s message.”

Believe what you want. I rely on the NET translation more than others, one of the reasons being the excellent translator's notes. Notice it is written in the language you and I use and understand: 21st Century English.

Here are other good modern translations...

NIV: " We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began."

NRSVue: "Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are being destroyed. But we speak God’s wisdom, a hidden mystery, which God decreed before the ages for our glory."

NASB: "Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;"

Notice that your concordance gives the meaning as "complete", not "perfect".

Jaybo, the conversation between you and another, was with regard to the words 'complete' and 'perfect', yet in your response to me, you introduce the word 'wisdom', thereby losing the context of the conversation and making scripture an unnecessary mystery. Context is so important, my Christian friend.