His Elect !

[savedbygrace57]

Jesus always defends His Elect no matter how sinful !

1 Jn 2:1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is no secret that God's Elect are great sinners, simply because they as all men are, born sinners, and are by nature enemies to God and what is all Holy and Righteous, But, Christ who died and rose in their behalf will always defend them before God's Law and Justice from all deserving accusations !

This is vividly set forth with the case of Joshua the High Priest of the Lord Zech 3:1-4

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Joshua the High Priest was wearing filthy garments, analogous of all God's People by nature, and no doubt satan the accuser of the brethren had brought accusation against him Rev 12:9-10

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Now there is no doubt Joshua as well as all the Elect of God can be accused of something amiss in their lives here in this flesh Rom 7:18-19

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

However notice the response from the Lord, for the Lord did not deny the filthiness of His Servant, but said:

The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

Yes, God pointed out that Joshua was part of that special Chosen People, the Jerusalem of God, even those Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4, in essence the Lord was echoing Paul's words here Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And then the Lord gives us to see, that He has clothed His Chosen People with His Own special woven Garments for them to wear

The Lord said

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Notice, God has taken away his iniquity, which speaks of the completed Work of Christ for the sins of His People, and then He clothes us with His Garments of Salvation, which is Christ's Righteousness Imputed to us ! Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

You see that ? Thats Free Grace , that is The Election of grace. The Lord Jesus Christ defends as a Defensive Attorney, an Advocate in the Court of law, all the Chosen of God, the Election of Grace, no matter how sinful it they can be seen to be, simply because they are the Chosen, as such, converted or not, believers or not, they are Reconciled to God [In His Law and Justice] and Clothed in the Imputed Righteousness of Christ !

 

[watchman333]

It is difficult to see how anyone can deny that our Lord has His chosen after reading this thread and all the scriptures relating to them. For instance, Jeremiah was chosen BEFORE entering the womb. The Apostle Paul was a CHOSEN [elect] vessel of the Lord. I believe the confusion comes from our misunderstanding of the elect's role while we walk this earth. The elect are here to serve our Father's purposes, not our own. We are justified before being born and therefore, the Lord may interfere in our lives as He chooses, if He chooses to at all. Everyone else must pass their tests of faith and the Lord, as a general rule, will not interfere with those lives, tests.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That Election gives one a special interest in Christ before they believe in Him, because even before they do so, Christ claims them as His Own " Other Sheep I have"

This word have is the greek word echo and means:

to have, i.e. to hold

to have i.e. own, possess

to be closely joined to a person or a thing

And its rendered in the present tense, Other Sheep I am having or owning !

And this True of them before hearing His Voice which is a prerequisite before believing, even before they listen to Him or Hearken; But the key here is that before such, He still is having them by Election ! Eph 1:4 In fact, If Christ had no interest in His Sheep by Election, for His Father gave them Him Jn 10:29a " My Father, which gave them me" there would have been no basis for Him to die for them and redeem them !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Limited Atonement and Election !


The fact that God called and separated Israel from the rest of the Nations of Mankind, and even in that Nation called in Abraham Gen 12:1-3, there was only a remnant of the True Chosen to Salvation Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Rom 9:27

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

BTW, this scripture confirms that God never purposed to save all Israel the ethnic Nation !

So God's Salvation is restricted to God's Purpose of Election, His Israel Spiritual Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Rom 9:11

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

For God has only promised to save Israel, that is why the Apostle to the Gentiles said Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Isa 45:15

Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

And even as God's saving Purpose went beyond the physical boundaries of the called nation israel, and into the other Nations of the World, it was still only to gather in Israel or the Elect among the Nations, so we see language like this Rom 11:26

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

And once all Israel is gathered and saved, that is God saving His World, the Total Collection of the Israel of God !

And we never understand the True God aright until we are made to bow and embrace the Gospel Truth of God's Gracious Sovereign unconditional Election, and that it is not purposed that God gives Saving Grace equally to all men without exception, for with some He did Purpose Rom 9:11, and the rest He did not Rom 11:7, according to His Own Will, and if this True fact is not settled in the heart, and you even find yourself in opposition to it, you serve an idol of your own imagination and not the God of Israel, who is the God of the Whole Earth ! Isa 54:5

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Unconditonal discrminatory Election does not make God a respector of persons, for if that was the case, it could not be rightfully called The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And to top that off, His Election of Grace has not been restricted to just one particular ethnicity, but it accounts for The redeemed that is out of every nation, tongue, kindred and people Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

And these all constitute the Israel of God

Notice vs 10

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now who was this said to before ? Ex 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Now Rev 5:10 has been renedered thusly:

ESV and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.â€

 

[Mitspa]

Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Is the fact that God has an election a theory of a man name calvin, or is it a scriptural truth ? I believe those who in unbelief and disdain, that shrug off election and other similar truth's of scripture as that of being the mere opinion of a man, will have much to answer for in the day of Judgment, which is not far away.

I will by God's Grace provide scriptural proof that election is the word of God, in that God, before the world began, made a distinction, a election among His creature man, choosing who would be objects of His special and peculiar Love and Favor. To begin lets look at a few verses of scripture.

Deut 7:6; Ps 135:4; Isa 41:8-9

Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

What is truly amazing, is that most adversaries of the blessed Truth of election, have no problem receiving this Truth here in Deut, however they accept it as being applied to a carnal, natural people, Natural Israel, ethnic jews, but they reject the ideal of it applying to a Spiritual People, of all different ethnicities, having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I have news for you, the Chosen in Deut 7:6 are the same exact Chosen in Eph 1:4.

The Love God Loved them with in Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

This is the same Love spoken of in Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God does not have different Love, its always grounded in His elective purpose in Christ Jesus per Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now what makes us believe that this Love in Rom 8:39 is any different from the Love of God spoken of in Deut 7:7 ?

There is no difference, its the same Love, for the same People, just that in Rom the Love is found out to be of a wider dimension than first revealed in Deut 7:6-7. For God so loved the World in that same manner Nicodemus. Jn 3:16. Thats Jesus point in Jn 3:16, that God had a Chosen, special, peculiar, people unto Himself, above all other People upon the Face of the earth.

James describe them here Acts 15:

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is part of the same People God spoke to in Deut 7:6-7, but it was not known then, but they too are of the Seed of Abraham Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

The Seed of Abraham, no matter what race or geographical location, are the Chosen or Elect of God.

Rev 3:13

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Doctrines dont make the "elect" completed faith does!


Heb 3:10

Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

sorry ,this is about faith, not about a churches beliefs.

 

[Mitspa]

2Co 1:21

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22


Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13


In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30


And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Dont be decieved! The "Elect" of God are those that have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of God. Not a bunch of "scribes" who thought like the Jews, that they had salvation by a birthright? All the "Elect" must be born-again!

 

[Eventide]

Election

Election is perhaps one of the most talked about doctrines in the scriptures.. and all that it basically means is selecting, or choosing something... there are many categories for God choosing, or electing something, or someone, to an office, to a prophet, even unto salvation.. etc etc..

Predestination is also a much talked about subject and it too is pretty straightforward imo..

Pre = beforehand
Destination = place

The scriptures flat out tell us that we are predestined to the Adoption of children by Jesus Christ.. this was God's decision before the foundation of the world, that all things would be gathered together in one; things on earth, and things in heaven, in Christ Jesus.

SO.. here's something to consider... you don't need to try and digest it all at once.. just chew on it and see if it glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ, or not..

Consider the possibility that the Lord Jesus Christ alone is the elect of God, the Chosen in Whom the Father Delights.. you can see this for yourself in Matthew 12:18 which is a prophecy concerning Christ, directly from Isaiah 42.

Then consider who we were in our Adamic state.. the way we were born into this world the first time through our natural parents by the flesh... before we were in Christ..

Did God choose that life ? Our old man according to the FLESH ?

Then consider who we are in Christ Jesus.. isn't He alone the way, the truth, and the life.. ?

Whose life is justified in us... our old man according to the flesh, or is it the new man after the Spirit of God ?

I'd be willing to bet that if you at least consider the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ alone is the elect of God, and that we become the elect of God by virtue of being IN HIM (remember, we are members of the BODY of Christ).. that you'll also find that this thinking places the glory entirely on God's beloved Son and not on condemned men in the first Adam..

Look at how easily this fits..

Election in the first Adam 0%
Election in the last Adam 100%

Or how about this..

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live.. yet not I, but Christ liveth in me..

It fits perfectly with the above model if you will..

To further illustrate this... in Col Paul teaches us to set our affections on the things above (because that's where our citizenship is, in heaven), and not on the things on earth.. WHY.. ?

Because ye are dead... and your life is hid in Christ with God.. when He appears.. who is OUR LIFE.. we shall appear with Him.. and John writes that we do not yet see what we shall be, but we shall be like Him.. for in the twinkling of an eye, and as a thief in the night.. these vile bodies of death are going to be transformed like unto HIS glorious body.. and we shall be for ever with the LORD..

Our hope of glory is clearly Christ (and Christ alone).. for every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that HE is LORD to the glory of the Father.

 

[Eventide]

He must increase, and I must decrease..

I have considered what is perhaps the most popular view today.. that being Unconditional Election.. which is clearly an election of certain individuals from the category (if you will) of the 1st Adam.. this can't be denied.. because that is what unconditional election is at its basis..

God choosing YOU.

IMO it doesn't fit at all into the whole of scripture.. all in the first Adam are condemned in the flesh, and justification of life has come from one man only.. our Lord Jesus Christ.

So it doesn't add up.. God choosing you doesn't fit into I am crucified with Christ.. or that ye are dead.. or that if any man shall come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross.. etc etc..

It doesn't fit with things like "put off the old man who is corrupt (not was corrupt, but rather is corrupt) according to deceitful lusts and put on the Lord Jesus Christ.."

How does God choosing me possibly fit into that ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Election Believed and taught in the OT !



Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

The word choosest is the hebrew word bachar:

to choose, elect, decide for

a) (Qal) to choose

b) (Niphal) to be chosen

c) (Pual) to be chosen, selected

And this being chosen is what causetst one's approach in faith, hence the faith of God's Elect. The word causets is the word qarab:

to come near, approach, enter into, draw near

a) (Qal) to approach, draw near

b) (Niphal) to be brought near

c) (Piel) to cause to approach, bring near, cause to draw near

d) (Hiphil) to bring near, bring, present

The person is being passively brought near, being caused to approach, its the working of God in a person both to will and do of His good pleasure, its the effect of the Cross of Christ also Eph 2:13.

This is but God calling whom He will into blessed fellowship with Himself and the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

And this is also called the Election of God of which He is the Sovereign cause 1 Thess 1:4

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by John O

To take single verses out of context all the time, and use words in the old english Bible that are not in context to what the Bible actually says is again just the practise of eisegesis.
These verses do not say what you want them to say and do not mean what you want them to mean. The Bible interprets itself, and does not need an outsdie concept to validate it's message.
John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9 are very clear. He died for ALL and salvation is for ALL.

Amen John.

God's foreknowledge allows Him to predestinate those He has chosen to come forth as His Firstfruits (ELECT) or His First-born Corporate Son . . . these who will be 'adopted' and be thus fully equipped to be what He wants them to be. This links up with the fulfillment of the Wave Offering of the Sheaf of Firstfruits of the Passover Feast which Jesus fulfilled as our prototype.

Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did PREDESTINATE TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be THE FIRST-BORN AMONG MANY BRETHREN."

The word "FIRST-FRUITS" in Hebrew means first in order or rank or place . . . Rt. word to burst. Greek. APARCHE = first away from. 'AP' = off, away (speaking of separation) and 'ARCHES' = first or beginning. This parallels the firstfruits of a harvest or the first-born in a family. The Feast of Pentecost's other title is the FEAST OF FIRSTFRUITs.

According to God's pattern given in the Old Covenant, there must come forth a FIRSTFRUITS COMPANY that is separated away FIRST from the whole just as the sheaf of firstfruits was waved as the evidence that the whole harvest would follow.

God's chosen are called His Elect (FIRSTFRUITS). The Bible uses various names when referring to God's Elect: the Saints, the Church, Believers, the Firstfruits, the Bride of Christ, the Lamb's Wife, the Holy City and New Jerusalem.

The 'unbiblical' problem with your (the OP's) analysis is that in your Calvinistic viewpoint, the Non-Elect are condemned to eternal damnation. That would mean that God created the majority of his creatures for the sole purpose of tormenting them for eternity, which would make Him a sadistic psychopath! Since He has perfect foreknowledge, and knew beforehand who He would choose as His elect, He also foreknew those (the majority of mankind) who He would NOT choose as His elect. If He only died for His elect as you say, then why did He create the rest of humanity (all of the non-elect)? Why would He create people that He already knew He wouldn't choose to be His elect, and thus, would be damned forever? That would make God to be a sick, perverted lunatic who created the vast majority of humans just so He could torture them forever. In my opinion, that maligns and defames God's character in the worst possible way, far worse than Arminianism does.

Christ didn't just die for the elect. The elect are chosen for a purpose. This is why they are called "FIRST-FRUITS." They are the "FIRST" of the harvest. They are "FIRST" in order:

1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each one IN HIS OWN ORDER: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming."

 

[Mitspa]

Amen John.

God's foreknowledge allows Him to predestinate those He has chosen to come forth as His Firstfruits (ELECT) or His First-born Corporate Son . . . these who will be 'adopted' and be thus fully equipped to be what He wants them to be. This links up with the fulfillment of the Wave Offering of the Sheaf of Firstfruits of the Passover Feast which Jesus fulfilled as our prototype.

Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did PREDESTINATE TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be THE FIRST-BORN AMONG MANY BRETHREN."

The word "FIRST-FRUITS" in Hebrew means first in order or rank or place . . . Rt. word to burst. Greek. APARCHE = first away from. 'AP' = off, away (speaking of separation) and 'ARCHES' = first or beginning. This parallels the firstfruits of a harvest or the first-born in a family. The Feast of Pentecost's other title is the FEAST OF FIRSTFRUITs.

According to God's pattern given in the Old Covenant, there must come forth a FIRSTFRUITS COMPANY that is separated away FIRST from the whole just as the sheaf of firstfruits was waved as the evidence that the whole harvest would follow.

God's chosen are called His Elect (FIRSTFRUITS). The Bible uses various names when referring to God's Elect: the Saints, the Church, Believers, the Firstfruits, the Bride of Christ, the Lamb's Wife, the Holy City and New Jerusalem.

The 'unbiblical' problem with your analysis is that in your Calvinistic viewpoint, the Non-Elect are condemned to eternal damnation. That would mean that God created the majority of his creatures for the sole purpose of tormenting them for eternity, which would make Him a sadistic psychopath! Since He has perfect foreknowledge, and knew beforehand who He would choose as His elect, He also foreknew those (the majority of mankind) who He would NOT choose as His elect. If He only died for His elect as you say, then why did He create the rest of humanity? Why would He create people that He already knew He wouldn't choose to be His elect, and thus, would be damned forever? That would make God to be a sick, perverted lunatic who created the vast majority of humans just so He could torture them forever. In my opinion, that maligns and defames God's character in the worst possible way, far worse than Arminianism does.

Christ didn't just die for the elect. The elect are chosen for a purpose. This is why they are called "FIRST-FRUITS." They are the "FIRST" of the harvest. They are "FIRST" in order:

1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each one IN HIS OWN ORDER: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming."

The Holy Spirit is God! and only those He seals are the "Elect" No one can come to God Unless the Holy Spirit draws them! And all must be "born again"! this is basic bible knowledge.

1Jn 4:5

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Here's a difficult question: Can you point to a verse or passage in which election, the elect, choose, or chosen apply only to an individual? If not, why do you suppose that is?

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Mitspa,

The Holy Spirit is God! and only those He seals are the "Elect" No one can come to God Unless the Holy Spirit draws them! And all must be "born again"! this is basic bible knowledge.

1Jn 4:5

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I agree. Not sure if you were responding to me or the OP, but I agree with your reply. My point to the OP was that Christ died for ALL, not just the elect (FIRSTFRUITS), as I explained in my previous post. The elect are chosen for a special purpose, yes, but they are not the only people Jesus died for. To believe so is religious exclusivism at its finest. It is not Scriptural, and it is just plain silly.

 

[Mitspa]

I agree. Not sure if you were responding to me or the OP, but I agree with your reply. My point to the OP was that Christ died for ALL, not just the elect (FIRSTFRUITS), as I explained in my previous post. The elect are chosen for a special purpose, yes, but they are not the only people Jesus died for. To believe so is religious exclusivism at its finest. It is not Scriptural, and it is just plain silly.

oops! sorry! please forgive? i get a little mixed up sometimes:eeeekkk
After i read so much of that nonsense, i kinda skip past what they say, when i see the word "elect"!

 

[Eventide]

In the volume of the book it is written of Me..

Here's a difficult question: Can you point to a verse or passage in which election, the elect, choose, or chosen apply only to an individual? If not, why do you suppose that is?

It's an excellent question and I believe that there is one correct answer according to the scriptures...

Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Anyone can verify this for themselves.. see Matthew 12:18 which is a prophecy concerning the Lord Jesus Christ from Isaiah 42.

 

[Eventide]

Mine Elect...

There are others who have been elected or chosen to an office.. ie, Paul is God's chosen Apostle to the Gentiles.. election to the office of a prophet comes to mind as well.. although the context here is election unto salvation.. and we know for a fact that there is salvation in no other.. It's the Lord Jesus Christ, period.

 

[Osgiliath]

This subject of the elect has been so distorted by religion (especially Calvinism). God has not predestined some people to be lost forever and others to be saved. The Bible says, "He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will . . ." "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (Ephesians 1:5, 2 Peter 3:9). Ephesians 1:5 does not say that God predestined a certain number of people to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ – implying that all others are predestined for eternal torment or eternal death. This text says that God has predestined fallen man to be adopted as His sons through Jesus (God predestined the adoption process).

Also, God predestines people for service

"The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.'" (Jeremiah 1:4,5)

"This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron . . . I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me. . . ." (Isaiah 45:1,2,5)

"He cried out against the altar by the word of the Lord: 'O altar, This is what the Lord says: A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who now make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you.'" (1 Kings 13:2)

Jeremiah was appointed to be a prophet for God before he was born. Cyrus, the pagan, was appointed to be a great king that would conquer the Babylonians. And the birth and reformation of King Josiah was foretold. We know that God is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34) He loved Jeremiah, Cyrus and Josiah and they were born with a destiny of service for God.

*And as Eventide mentioned above, Paul was a chosen Apostle to the Gentiles:

"But the Lord said unto him, Go your way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel." (Acts 9:15)

Also, according to God's pattern given in the Old Covenant, there must come forth a FIRSTFRUITS COMPANY that is separated away FIRST from the whole just as the sheaf of firstfruits was waved as the evidence that the whole harvest would follow.

Every harvest has a firstfruits . . . those that ripen ahead of the remainder. These firstfruits guarantee that there will later be a full harvest:

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on THE MOUNT SION, and with him AN HUNDRED FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, having his FATHER'S NAME WRITTEN IN THEIR FOREHEADS. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no MAN could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women [they were not defiled by the great harlot and her daughters - i.e. - RELIGION]; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT BEFORE THE THRONE of God." (Revelation 14:1-5, insertion mine).

The FIRSTFRUITS are also called His Elect. The Bible uses various names when referring to God's Elect: the Saints, the Church, Believers, the Firstfruits, the Bride of Christ, the Lamb's Wife, the Holy City and New Jerusalem.

They are called "FIRST-FRUITS because they are the "FIRST" of the harvest. (only the first part of the rest of the harvest that will follow). They are "FIRST" in order:

1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each one IN HIS OWN ORDER: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming."

All of this has absolutely nothing to do with the ridiculous notion which presumes God predestined some people to be lost forever and others to be saved, or that Jesus only died for a select few, but not for the majority. Calvinism is cruel and unloving because it claims that God allows beings to come into existence that deserve to suffer endlessly, and will suffer endlessly, except for a few "elect" that God will rescue from such a fate by His irresistible grace. The Calvinist's god allows millions of beings to come into existence and either cannot, or will not, do anything to stop them from suffering forever. When you really think about that using wisdom, it is so beyond preposterous it is laughable. Yet it is tragic because many are in bondage to this demonic belief system.

 

[Grazer]

Thank you Osgiliath, that makes much more sense to me

 

[Osgiliath]

Your welcome Grazer

It can be a little confusing (thanks to man's self-exalting, exclusivist dogmas , but when you gather ALL of the Scriptural pieces, including the "types" given in the Old Covenant, it all comes together harmoniously.