The gift of tongues.

[reba]

Being raised Pentecostal now i am 65.. Tongues always was a natural part of my every day life..... Better then tongues ClassiK.....

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

I no longer care for the tongues battle. Folks will believe about it as the wish...Some say if you dont speak in tongues you dont have the Holy Spirit...or you dont have the indwelling... up one hill and down the next......Some go farther and say you are not saved... Some will battle and tell you tongues is of the devil... God is pretty clear here (1 Cor 13:1) about tongues when we dont show the love that we are to show. Paul covers both the "heavenly" (some times called the spirit language ) and the language of men.... Our haughty words can sound very empty... Just like the Pharisee

 

[Classik]

Acts 2:4 is the first instance and the promised Comforter/Advocate that Jesus said the Father would send, as shown in John 15:26. This isn't the last time this happens in Acts. It also occurs in Acts 4:31, to a lot of the same people that had been there in Acts 2:4. These two depictions show the Holy Spirit infilling people who were prayerfully seeking God. All these people spoke in tongues.
The next depiction is shown in Acts 8:17, to believers in Samaria. In this instance, Peter & John prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit, and laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit, which they did. They then spoke in tongues.
The next occurance was when Paul received the Holy Spirit, as depicted in Acts 9:17-18, by the laying on of hands of Ananias. The next instance is Acts 10:44-46, when Peter spoke to the Gentiles for the first time. In this case, they receievd the Holy Spirit while they were listening to Peter preach. This also happened in Acts 13:52 on it's own, and Acts 19:6 when Paul laid hands on some believers.

As you can see from scripture, there is a few different scenarios where people recieve the Holy Spirit. He is NOT limited to a particular procedure. He looks for hungry hearts, longing after Jesus.

Paul talk about gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 12 and 14, so those scriptures are important to take ahold of.




Not in the tongues the Holy Spirit causes. That requires Christ as Saviour.

Fascinating.
Thanks for the verses

As you can see from scripture, there is a few different scenarios where people recieve the Holy Spirit. He is NOT limited to a particular procedure. He looks for hungry hearts, longing after Jesus.

Great summary.
This answers my question, indeed - and the verses helped

 

[Classik]

You know, I've always thought that Adam through Noah spoke the same language as is heard in heaven. And, I do believe that the prayer language is that same language. Speculative of course, but logical when one thinks about it.

What is Halleluyah then???
They could have interpreted it, i.e the OT people could have told us the meaning, used the actual meaning frquently, or even spoken other ones.

 

[Classik]

During the Tower of Babel thing God touched their language - and the people spoke thousands of languages. That would mean, some people with us still speak the Angels' Tongue.

Where are they? ;)
At least they should tell us what Halleluyah means.

 

[reba]

Handel's Messiah

allelujah (Aleluya)

Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah

For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah

Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
(For the lord God omnipotent reigneth)
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah

For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
(Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah)
Hallelujah

The kingdom of this world;
is become
the kingdom of our Lord,
and of His Christ
and of His Christ

And He shall reign for ever and ever
And he shall reign forever and ever
And he shall reign forever and ever
And he shall reign forever and ever

King of kings forever and ever hallelujah hallelujah
and lord of lords forever and ever hallelujah hallelujah
King of kings forever and ever hallelujah hallelujah
and lord of lords forever and ever hallelujah hallelujah
King of kings forever and ever hallelujah hallelujah
and lord of lords
King of kings and lord of lords

And he shall reign
And he shall reign
And he shall reign
He shall reign
And he shall reign forever and ever

King of kings forever and ever
and lord of lords hallelujah hallelujah
And he shall reign forever and ever

King of kings and lord of lords
King of kings and lord of lords
And he shall reign forever and ever

Forever and ever and ever and ever
(King of kings and lord of lords)

Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah
Hallelujah

 

[Classik]

I think John saw (in his revelation) God's Angels saying Halleluyah to God and bowing to HIM. I think it was John. Hahaha. I win.

John probably copied;)


Now tell me. What do Angels call soccer;)

 

[Classik]

19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying,“Hallelujah! Salvation, power, and glory belong to our God:

19:3 A second said, “Hallelujah! Her smoke goes up forever and ever.â€

19:4 The twenty-four eldersand the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying, “Amen! Hallelujah!â€

19:6 I heard something like the voice of a great multitude, and like the voice of many waters, andlike the voice of mighty thunders, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns!

 

[Elijah674]

You know, I've always thought that Adam through Noah spoke the same language as is heard in heaven. And, I do believe that the prayer language is that same language. Speculative of course, but logical when one thinks about it.

Post 33 has the Truth in the verses. We still have a brain to think with that we are Born Again with in Gods Image, we are told. And what kind of Universe would They have had if all talked in a different language??? So NO, 'i' think that it is not speculative in the least bit. And I agree with you except with that point!;)

--Elijah

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That is wrong. Jesus didn't put a time limit on the Holy Spirit, nor did Paul, or Peter or John. This dispensational view is man-made and NOT reflected in ANY scripture.

Jesus said in Mark 16:17; And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues.
Not miraculous tongues, NEW tongues. The greek word for new here is the adjective kainos, which is interpreted as;

1) new

a) as respects form

1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
​

​

b) as respects substance

1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
​

​

I have spoken in tongues in my prayer language for over 40 years now. I have spoken in tongues as a prophecy with interpretation just as long.

Paul says specifically in 1 Cor 14:39; Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

It the Mk 16 context, it was the apostles who were the unbelivers, Jesus had to upbraid the apostles for their unbelief, v14. When v17 says 'them' that believe it refers to the apostles that would believe. The plural pronouns 'they' and 'them' in vs 17-20 refer back to plural antecedant "the eleven" in v14, not the singular 'he' of v16. So the passage is saying them of the apostles that beleive would have these signs as v20 shows. In 2 Cor 12:12 Paul calls them "signs of an apostle" and not "signs of a believer. Not all who believed had the ability to perform signs, 1 Cor 12:29,30. Nowhere does the bible teach signs are for anyone today.

(Edit: there is more than sufficient evidence that Mk 16:9-20 is as valid and genuine as any other verses)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

As you were not at the event in Acts 2:4, and I fear, have never had the in-filling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, how would you possibly know of what you speak? The following is an example of Paul's instruction on order in the church when using the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The actual speaking in tongues and interpretation comes from OFF camera at about the 3 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=uzgA5hpT6CQ&NR=1

​

You call this 'miraculous', the Bible doesn't. Jesus called it receiving the Comforter/Advocate, as He predicted in John 14:26 and has continually happened from that time to now and will until Christ's return.

I would say again, the signs in Mk 16:17,18 were being promised to those apostles that would believe. The Comforter was a promise to the apostles, no one else, no one today. No one today has been given any ability to perform a sign. No miraculous speaking in tongues took place in the video as it did with the apostles in Acts 2.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I disagree with some of Jackson's conclusions. He seems very close to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

We need to keep in mind that Paul did say that speaking in tongues edifies oneself and that if there is an interpretation that the message in tongues should indeed be shared.

Here is Paul's bottom line, which should be our own as well (emphasis mine):

Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner. 1 Corinthians 14:39-40

Wayne Jackson is spot on in refuting Pentecostal's claims about 'angelic tongues'. In 1 Cor 14 Paul was speaking to those Corinthians back in the first century when miraculous signs actually took place, Paul is not referencing anyone today for those signs ceased, vanished away long ago around the end of the first century.

 

[Webb]

Hi Stan53---I am fully persuaded Mark 16 is valid and inspired and believe more than ample evidence will support my conviction. Am I miffed that you concluded our debate before it even started? Of course not. I am disappointed but as I stated the future of the debate so far as its ongoing was entirely up to you.

God bless

 

[reba]

I think John saw (in his revelation) God's Angels saying Halleluyah to God and bowing to HIM. I think it was John. Hahaha. I win.

John probably copied;)


Now tell me. What do Angels call soccer;)

The devils game

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Comforter was a promise to the apostles, no one else...

...somebody forgot to tell Stephen.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm still a little sleepy and may have missed it in this thread, but where does it say they only speak known earthly languages of men in heaven?

I hope God has a Chicago accent.

"Hey, you dare!"

(That's God calling someone into the ministry.)

 

[handy]

The Comforter was a promise to the apostles, no one else, no one today.

I wholly disagree.

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

And we see that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the church as per the prophesy in Joel.

This was about daughters and handmaidens... So, which of the apostles were women?

When we simply read the Scriptures we find that the Holy Spirit gave the gifts and the gifts were for the Church.

What? Do you believe the assembly that Paul was speaking to in 1 Corinthians 12 was comprised only of apostles?

Paul said that when the perfect came, when we are looking "face to face", when we no longer see through a glass darkly, then all prophesies and tongues and knowledge will cease and love will remain. 1 Corinthians

We are not living during that time yet.

I know that some pastors have tried to teach that the Scriptures are the "perfect" which Paul says is to come, but we only need to peruse around this forum to see that, while the Bible is inspired and inerrant, it's not the perfect thing that will cause us all to see face to face. We are still only knowing in part. I don't know of anyone who would want to try to claim that they know just as fully as they have been known. Paul is tying the ceasing of prophesy, tongues and knowledge with the time we are united in Christ, not simply the end of the apostolic age.

Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul is tying the ceasing of prophesy, tongues and knowledge with the time we are united in Christ, not simply the end of the apostolic age.

...And how love is the mature relationship with God, not dramatic gifts of prophecy and tongues that are only about God. Just knowing about God through the gifts, as dramatic and spectacular as they are, is still childhood compared to actually being known by God and being like him (loving) as a result.

8 We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God." (1 Cor. 8:1-3 NIV)

The point being, knowledge is not what shows us to know God. Love shows that we 'know' God.

It's better to be known by God and love God than it is to know about him through the gifts. Walking in a gift does not mean you know God in a mature way, but some in the church think that is true and pursue ministry and the gifts as the mark of a mature relationship with him.

This truth is what helped me set the compass of my own relationship with God away from gifts and onto what really matters and counts--love. The interesting thing was, when I did that my gift started to flourish and settle into a satisfying and unburdensome place in my spiritual life. Keep the main thing the main thing and all the rest will fall in place. (Where have I heard that before?)

 

[Classik]

The devils game

BLASPHEMY!!!edunno

 

[Kidron]

Thank you all for your reply.

One thing now seems to be true. Since the original question remains: what shall I do to receive the gift of tongues? Should the leader lay hands on you and pray? Do you need a communion? Etc

I noticed some speak in tongues after they were baptised and PRAYED for.

I have noticed some get that gift after communion.

I have noticed some speak after the pastor prayed for them.

I could have added this in my original post.
It seems we can get it when we seriously need it - and no matter the activity or program going on .

Think of it this way.
If you are going to be witnessing to a lot of people who dont speak english and you dont speak their language, then you would certainly need a gift of a foreign language which allowed them to understand the Gospel.
However, if you are not going to be dealing with a lot of foreigners, and instead will mostly be sticking around the good ole USA, then if you want to seek for a spiritual gift, then do what Paul said and ask God for one of the other gifts that would be more helpful to people that speak english.

here are 4 that you might consider asking God to give to you and the reason is, because these are much more important in the day to day lives of most believers.

The Word of Wisdom
The Gift of Faith
The Gifts of Healings
The Discerning of Spirits


be blessed,


K

 

[Stan53]

It the Mk 16 context, it was the apostles who were the unbelievers, Jesus had to upbraid the apostles for their unbelief, v14. When v17 says 'them' that believe it refers to the apostles that would believe. The plural pronouns 'they' and 'them' in vs 17-20 refer back to plural antecedent "the eleven" in v14, not the singular 'he' of v16. So the passage is saying them of the apostles that believe would have these signs as v20 shows. In 2 Cor 12:12 Paul calls them "signs of an apostle" and not "signs of a believer. Not all who believed had the ability to perform signs, 1 Cor 12:29,30. Nowhere does the bible teach signs are for anyone today.

The CONTEXT is believers in Christ who did not believe those other believers that HAD seen Jesus post resurrection. I'm afraid you have this all wrong. The text in Mark 16:14, reads, 14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
Not quite what you are trying to imply Ernest. The Eleven believed in Jesus, just not in the eye sight of those who had seen Him before them.
v15; He said to them,(the Eleven) “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
v16; Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
v17-18; And these signs will accompany those who believe(1st word in v16): In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.â€
v19-20; 19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed His Word by the signs that accompanied it.(His Word)

Signs still accompany Jesus' Word today. They were never meant to stop.

2 Cor 2:12; I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles.
Paul was following up his thought in v11, where he states; I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,†even though I am nothing.
The context of v12, is based on what he said in verse 11 and goes on to finish that thought in v13. Paul was defending who he was in Christ.
1 Cor 12:29-30; Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. And yet I will show you the most excellent way.
Paul is stating a fact here, not ALL believers are given ALL the manifestations and gifts of the Holy Spirit. He is NOT talking about the same thing as 2 Cor 12 or Mark 16:17-18.

Properly exegeted, scripture does show that the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit have been in the Church since Acts 2. There is NOTHING in scripture that indicates otherwise. I would challenge you, or anyone, to produce at least one scripture that definitively indicates your assertion that the Holy Spirit no longer functions or should function the way the NT shows they do.