Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?

[Obadiah]

Verses such as John 3:16 are taken out of context with the rest of the NT, unless one is clear that "believe" means faith, trust, follow, and OBEY.

So I'm wondering, where do you get "obey" as a definition of pisteuō (the Greek word translated to "believe" in John 3:16)? "Obey" is not to my knowledge one of the generally accepted definitions of this word and in the almost 250 places it is used in scripture, it doesn't seem to ever indicate "obey". It doesn't seem that you leave much room for forgiveness in what you are saying.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

the question Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven? the answer------- yes

I agree. I will even go as far as to say all Christians make it to Heaven . . . even the Christians who murder people.


"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." -John 3:16





In my neck of the woods, we don't refer to ourselves as "born again Christians", simply because we feel it is already understood.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -John 3:3

It's for the same reason that we don't refer to ourselves as "Believeth In Him Christians". It's just "Christians".

The only time I see us using terms like that is when we are trying to make a point in a conversation. We might start a sentence like "I, as a born again Christian . . .", and then continue to make our point that is connected to the aspect of being born again. Another example would be "I, as a God-fearing Christian . . .", and there are obviously a bunch of other Bible-passage-borrowing adjectives that we might insert.

It seems like members of certain, more modern denominations feel the need to always include the term "born again". The one thing I do like about the term is that it lets me know who I'm dealing with.

 

[John Zain]

Believeing a doctrine such as OSAS wil notl send anyone to hell! Thats just promoting a spirit of fear. For the doctrine is sound if it is based upon Gods grace "the Spirit of grace" and not on some nonsense of mans tradition, such as we hear from these "elect" folks.
Being saved because one is a part of a certain church or one thinks themselves part of the "elect" is as much folly as those who think they can "earn" righteousness through the law.
I will agree that those who think the doctrines of the gospel are an excuse to walk in the lust of their flesh, are not and should not have confidence that Gods grace covers such actions. For God is not mocked by mans attempts to excuse away their sinful desires by man made doctrines and traditions.
Having said that, the power over sin is not found in legalism or the law, it is found in true and sincere desires to live godly lives by the power of His Grace.
FOR SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

Believing and trusting in a doctrine such as OSAS will send people to hell,
if they are not very careful.

The power over sin is found in true and sincere desires to live godly lives
by the power of His Grace, only by following the precious Holy Spirit
... for He is the One who tries to sanctify you unto holiness.

In this age, no one can satisfy God without being born-again,
and going through the sanctification process by the Holy Spirit.

 

[John Zain]

Verses such as John 3:16 are taken out of context with the rest of the NT, unless one is clear that "believe" means faith, trust, follow, and OBEY.

So I'm wondering, where do you get "obey" as a definition of pisteuō (the Greek word translated to "believe" in John 3:16)? "Obey" is not to my knowledge one of the generally accepted definitions of this word and in the almost 250 places it is used in scripture, it doesn't seem to ever indicate "obey". It doesn't seem that you leave much room for forgiveness in what you are saying.

Excellent question indeed.
It appears that John's use of pisteuo 98 TIMES is quite a bag of snakes.
I'm just getting into it, and don't know what to think!

John strongly implies transitory faith in 2:23-25.

Many believing disciples left Jesus in chapter 6:66.

In John 8, many came “to believe” but, when confronted with the further claims of Christ,
these are revealed to be “children of the devil” (8:44) who are not “truly disciples” (8:31) and thus have no “life.”

The parable of the vine and branches (15:1-11) is a strong warning against transitory faith.

So, the above sampling reflects a repeated theme in John.
Many “disciples” do not continue with Jesus.
Many who “believe” (pisteuo) eventually reject Jesus and are not “truly disciples".

Perhaps, all of this displays that John's use of pisteuo (believe)
cannot be trusted to mean "unto salvation" after all.

I much prefer to trust the dozens of other passages,
which warn believers about falling away from salvation,
which is a process ... and so is sanctification a process.

 

[John Zain]

It seems like members of certain, more modern denominations feel the need to always include the term "born again". The one thing I do like about the term is that it lets me know who I'm dealing with.

Good idea!
IMO, the Church has always had plenty of clergy and laity
who were intellectual Christians as opposed to born-again Christians.

IMO, historically, many have NOT had the indwelling presence of the precious Holy Spirit.

Perhaps, many people have allowed themselves to be deceived
into believing in OSAS by passages such as John 3:16.

 

[Mitspa]

Believeing a doctrine such as OSAS wil notl send anyone to hell! Thats just promoting a spirit of fear. For the doctrine is sound if it is based upon Gods grace "the Spirit of grace" and not on some nonsense of mans tradition, such as we hear from these "elect" folks.
Being saved because one is a part of a certain church or one thinks themselves part of the "elect" is as much folly as those who think they can "earn" righteousness through the law.
I will agree that those who think the doctrines of the gospel are an excuse to walk in the lust of their flesh, are not and should not have confidence that Gods grace covers such actions. For God is not mocked by mans attempts to excuse away their sinful desires by man made doctrines and traditions.
Having said that, the power over sin is not found in legalism or the law, it is found in true and sincere desires to live godly lives by the power of His Grace.
FOR SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

Believing and trusting in a doctrine such as OSAS will send people to hell,
if they are not very careful.

The power over sin is found in true and sincere desires to live godly lives
by the power of His Grace, only by following the precious Holy Spirit
... for He is the One who tries to sanctify you unto holiness.

In this age, no one can satisfy God without being born-again,
and going through the sanctification process by the Holy Spirit.

Well let me agree again in general with your statement, that the fruits of the righteousness of faith is holiness. And that being a life lived in the Spirit. Apart from the world and the lust of the flesh for the world.
Now what I have seen in what most are calling "sanctification" process, is just people becoming more and more religious and more and more like the pharisees. But in general terms the Holy Spirit does indeed draw us out of this world and takes us to the Cross, whereby the flesh is crucified.
This is not a "spirit of bondage again to fear" which I would say that most who boast in holiness are guilty of.

I live a holy life, I walk into (prison) rooms and sinners weep at the conviction of Gods Spirit upon me. This is not a product of religion, of fear! This is a product of being so captured by Gods love that I spend most every waking moment in His love and communion of the Spirit.

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. If a thing does not have Gods life with it, I want no part of that thing. Most religion is just spiritual death. But the true yoke of Christ is easy and light and full of life!

 

[John Zain]

I walk into (prison) rooms and sinners weep at the conviction of Gods Spirit upon me.

Allow me to point out a minor boo-boo ... the conviction of Gods Spirit is upon them!
As in ... the Holy Spirit convicts people to believe in the gospel.
As in ... no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them (by His Spirit).

 

[iLOVE]

The spirit of fear from the evil spiritual forces of wickedness in high places (demons) is being whispered in the ear of the self righteous to make the Believers who "miss the mark" sin-conscious instead of being Christ-conscious.

Men, have you ever caught yourself thinking, “I don’t want to look at any woman in case I lust”? You are being sin-conscious when you think like that. And sooner or later, you will lust in your heart. You may not sin outwardly, but you will sin inwardly.

Have you also tried confessing every sin? I have! “I’m sorry, Lord. Forgive me for this thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, another thought would come and I would quickly say, “Forgive me, Lord, for that thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, if I happen to doubt His forgiveness, I would confess my unbelief and ask for forgiveness: “Forgive me, Lord, for doubting You.” Before I knew it, I was oppressed in my mind and so sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious!

My brothers and sisters, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God!

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:7

 

[Mitspa]

I walk into (prison) rooms and sinners weep at the conviction of Gods Spirit upon me.

Allow me to point out a minor boo-boo ... the conviction of Gods Spirit is upon them!
As in ... the Holy Spirit convicts people to believe in the gospel.
As in ... no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them (by His Spirit).

Well I think I used the term in an understandable way to make a point. I said they weep at the conviction of Gods Spirit, that is upon me. The Spirit rest upon those who are in Gods rest.

This is holiness! Not a bunch "half mad" folks with religious haircuts and long skirts, Polyester suits and old dry religious songs. Holiness is living and loving by the Spirit of God.

 

[Mitspa]

The spirit of fear from the evil spiritual forces of wickedness in high places (demons) is being whispered in the ear of the self righteous to make the Believers who "miss the mark" sin-conscious instead of being Christ-conscious.

Men, have you ever caught yourself thinking, “I don’t want to look at any woman in case I lust”? You are being sin-conscious when you think like that. And sooner or later, you will lust in your heart. You may not sin outwardly, but you will sin inwardly.

Have you also tried confessing every sin? I have! “I’m sorry, Lord. Forgive me for this thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, another thought would come and I would quickly say, “Forgive me, Lord, for that thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, if I happen to doubt His forgiveness, I would confess my unbelief and ask for forgiveness: “Forgive me, Lord, for doubting You.” Before I knew it, I was oppressed in my mind and so sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious!

My brothers and sisters, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God!

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:7

Ilove! I agree 100% How did you and I ever disagree a few days ago? maybe the Lord was taking some iron and putting a new edge to it? Any way blessing and peace from God.

 

[iLOVE]

The spirit of fear from the evil spiritual forces of wickedness in high places (demons) is being whispered in the ear of the self righteous to make the Believers who "miss the mark" sin-conscious instead of being Christ-conscious.

Men, have you ever caught yourself thinking, “I don’t want to look at any woman in case I lust”? You are being sin-conscious when you think like that. And sooner or later, you will lust in your heart. You may not sin outwardly, but you will sin inwardly.

Have you also tried confessing every sin? I have! “I’m sorry, Lord. Forgive me for this thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, another thought would come and I would quickly say, “Forgive me, Lord, for that thought in Jesus’ name.” Then, if I happen to doubt His forgiveness, I would confess my unbelief and ask for forgiveness: “Forgive me, Lord, for doubting You.” Before I knew it, I was oppressed in my mind and so sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious!

My brothers and sisters, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God!

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:7

Ilove! I agree 100% How did you and I ever disagree a few days ago? maybe the Lord was taking some iron and putting a new edge to it? Any way blessing and peace from God.

I continue to learn from you!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/bornagan.htm

 

[Grappler]

The tribulation saints who came to Christ doing "The Great Tribulation" are saved. These saints were unbelievers before the "Rapture". They refuse to worship and take the mark of the beast during these dark times. They became believers! Revelation 7:9-17

"And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Did it ever occur to you that there is no "Rapture" and that you might, if you don't die first, have to go through these dark times yourself?

 

[gr8grace]

The spirit of fear from the evil spiritual forces of wickedness in high places (demons) is being whispered in the ear of the self righteous to make the Believers who "miss the mark" sin-conscious instead of being Christ-conscious.

Men, have you ever caught yourself thinking, “I don’t want to look at any woman in case I lust� You are being sin-conscious when you think like that. And sooner or later, you will lust in your heart. You may not sin outwardly, but you will sin inwardly.

Have you also tried confessing every sin? I have! “I’m sorry, Lord. Forgive me for this thought in Jesus’ name.†Then, another thought would come and I would quickly say, “Forgive me, Lord, for that thought in Jesus’ name.†Then, if I happen to doubt His forgiveness, I would confess my unbelief and ask for forgiveness: “Forgive me, Lord, for doubting You.†Before I knew it, I was oppressed in my mind and so sin-conscious instead of Christ-conscious!

My brothers and sisters, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God!

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:7

Wow, that was GOOD. It sure is nice to see another believer that has a grasp on grace.

 

[gr8grace]

To the original post...

Way to put a guy on the spot, John! Hmm. Introspection time.

Luke 10:22

22 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him./ (KJV)

but luckily:

Luke 11:9-10

9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened./ (KJV)

No one can do it. It must be given unto him. We ask for it, we humble ourselves, we seek Him. We put aside the flesh and live for the spirit and stay at Lords feet.

I am with you. It just amazes me how How our flesh and Satan deceives us into thinking that the Lord wants to KILL us all if we don't measure up, when He knows that none of us can do it!

 

[iLOVE]

The tribulation saints who came to Christ doing "The Great Tribulation" are saved. These saints were unbelievers before the "Rapture". They refuse to worship and take the mark of the beast during these dark times. They became believers! Revelation 7:9-17

"And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Did it ever occur to you that there is no "Rapture" and that you might, if you don't die first, have to go through these dark times yourself?

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth." (Revelation 3:10)

 

[gr8grace]

No not all born-again "christains" will be with Christ in heaven. For those who where justified freely by His grace, and received the free-gift of righteouness, and turn back to legalism and the written code have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. They have rejected the "way of righteouness" and are going about to establish their own righteousness by the law. 2 Pet 2:21-22
It would been better for these people to have never been born than to have heard the Holy Commandment THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM.
For these are those who will come to Him and say "lord lord" did we not do these things in your name? And He will say depart from me, you cursed children.
FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE.

Not a chance Mitspa. If one is a believer at anytime in His/her life they will go to heaven. What you are saying here Is exactly what you fight for. The Law has power and is alive if it can take away salvation by GRACE. There is NOTHING in this world that can take away the promise of God to save a person that has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If a person was Justified By grace,The Law cannot unsave a person. If it can the Law is still alive and powerful.

 

[gr8grace]

The tribulation saints who came to Christ doing "The Great Tribulation" are saved. These saints were unbelievers before the "Rapture". They refuse to worship and take the mark of the beast during these dark times. They became believers! Revelation 7:9-17

"And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Did it ever occur to you that there is no "Rapture" and that you might, if you don't die first, have to go through these dark times yourself?

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth." (Revelation 3:10)

Spot on. The Greek says to "TAKE one out" Not give you "power" to endure. He takes us out completely! We are not destined for wrath. Not the wrath of Jesus nor the wrath of Satan.

 

[Mitspa]

No not all born-again "christains" will be with Christ in heaven. For those who where justified freely by His grace, and received the free-gift of righteouness, and turn back to legalism and the written code have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. They have rejected the "way of righteouness" and are going about to establish their own righteousness by the law. 2 Pet 2:21-22
It would been better for these people to have never been born than to have heard the Holy Commandment THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM.
For these are those who will come to Him and say "lord lord" did we not do these things in your name? And He will say depart from me, you cursed children.
FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE.

Not a chance Mitspa. If one is a believer at anytime in His/her life they will go to heaven. What you are saying here Is exactly what you fight for. The Law has power and is alive if it can take away salvation by GRACE. There is NOTHING in this world that can take away the promise of God to save a person that has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If a person was Justified By grace,The Law cannot unsave a person. If it can the Law is still alive and powerful.

The law is not taking away salvation, salvation is rejected by those who reject grace. YE HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE, YE ARE CUTOFF FROM CHRIST.

If the Angels who left their first estate, was cast into cast into hell, so will those who reject Gods rightelousness and go about to establish their own.

2 Pet 2:21
Sorry I dont make the rules, and I dont save those who God says will be destroyed.

FOR THE LORD HIMSELF CALL THOSE WHO WOULD COME TO HIM AND BE REJECTED "CURSED"

now those who are under the works of the law are "CURSED" by the law.

 

[John 8:32]

No not all born-again "christains" will be with Christ in heaven. For those who where justified freely by His grace, and received the free-gift of righteouness, and turn back to legalism and the written code have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. They have rejected the "way of righteouness" and are going about to establish their own righteousness by the law. 2 Pet 2:21-22
It would been better for these people to have never been born than to have heard the Holy Commandment THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM.
For these are those who will come to Him and say "lord lord" did we not do these things in your name? And He will say depart from me, you cursed children.
FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE.

Not a chance Mitspa. If one is a believer at anytime in His/her life they will go to heaven. What you are saying here Is exactly what you fight for. The Law has power and is alive if it can take away salvation by GRACE. There is NOTHING in this world that can take away the promise of God to save a person that has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If a person was Justified By grace,The Law cannot unsave a person. If it can the Law is still alive and powerful.

The law is not taking away salvation, salvation is rejected by those who reject grace. YE HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE, YE ARE CUTOFF FROM CHRIST.

If the Angels who left their first estate, was cast into cast into hell, so will those who reject Gods rightelousness and go about to establish their own.

2 Pet 2:21
Sorry I dont make the rules, and I dont save those who God says will be destroyed.

FOR THE LORD HIMSELF CALL THOSE WHO WOULD COME TO HIM AND BE REJECTED "CURSED"

now those who are under the works of the law are "CURSED" by the law.

Hmmm, I guess that includes Christ?

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: