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Raptures – Tribulation

Now please explain to me how you think the resurrection of the dead will happen before the tribulation?

Please list the scriptures that show the Resurrection of the dead in Christ wil happen before the tribulation.


JLB

We have already been through all that with many pages of post. I would like to think that it's possible to talk about end time stuff that did not end in pages of scriptures that nobody but a couple folks can make heads or tails out of. What you think?

The issue will always be that you think Paul is speaking about the end of tribulation because you don't see it any other way. Paul never mentions a time though. The dead in Christ shall rise first is all Paul said.

Besides, you need to get straight what a Greek Female noun is, a Male noun and a Neuter Noun is. Seemed to me that last time you were wanting to make Apostasia a Verb which would have been paparato. It's not a verb though.

anyway.
 
The Rapture and Resurrection are one event Brother.

One Event!

The Gathering!

All of those who are Christ's will be Gathered together.

The Resurrected Ones and The Raptured ones are Gather together, at His Coming.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

All the saints, at His Coming.

There is no 7 year gap here, between the rapture and the Resurrection, it's One Event.


Now please explain to me how you think the resurrection of the dead will happen before the tribulation?

Please list the scriptures that show the Resurrection of the dead in Christ wil happen before the tribulation.


JLB

One of the things that i'm unclear on, is, if the rapture is post trib...then, how does that work out with respect to the timing between, when Jesus shows up in the valley of Meggido (sp?) (Armageddon) and stops the battle (so to speak, lol) and then raptures the church out to go to the marriage supper of the Lamb...and then returns? Or He raptures the church out first, and leaves with the church ( for a quick snack lunch?) and then returns to the valley where the battle would be (if He didn't come and put an end to it) and then concludes it to enter into the millennial reign that is...)

Am I missing something there because it doesn't sound as if there'll be a lot of time for the marriage supper...and that doesn't really make sense to me. Forgive me brother, i hope that makes sense, it's pretty late but i wanted to ask this...
 
We have already been through all that with many pages of post. I would like to think that it's possible to talk about end time stuff that did not end in pages of scriptures that nobody but a couple folks can make heads or tails out of. What you think?

The issue will always be that you think Paul is speaking about the end of tribulation because you don't see it any other way. Paul never mentions a time though. The dead in Christ shall rise first is all Paul said.

Besides, you need to get straight what a Greek Female noun is, a Male noun and a Neuter Noun is. Seemed to me that last time you were wanting to make Apostasia a Verb which would have been paparato. It's not a verb though.

anyway.


Brother, you nor anyone else on this Forum or any other Forum has ever presented any scripture that shows the Resurrection of the dead in Christ to be before the tribulation.

Anyone that desires to seek the truth can study the scriptures concerning the resurrection of the dead in Christ and plainly see that event occurs at His Coming, after the wicked one is revealed, after the tribulation.

The Resurrection and rapture is one event, that occurs at the end of the age, on the last Day, when Jesus returns to Gather His people.


Every eye will see Him.


You are the blessed.


JLB
 
One of the things that i'm unclear on, is, if the rapture is post trib...then, how does that work out with respect to the timing between, when Jesus shows up in the valley of Meggido (sp?) (Armageddon) and stops the battle (so to speak, lol) and then raptures the church out to go to the marriage supper of the Lamb...and then returns? Or He raptures the church out first, and leaves with the church ( for a quick snack lunch?) and then returns to the valley where the battle would be (if He didn't come and put an end to it) and then concludes it to enter into the millennial reign that is...)

Am I missing something there because it doesn't sound as if there'll be a lot of time for the marriage supper...and that doesn't really make sense to me. Forgive me brother, i hope that makes sense, it's pretty late but i wanted to ask this...


The marriage supper of the lamb takes place on Earth in Jerusalem after He returns.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God." 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Revelation 19:7-13


...for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

...And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.


Do you see a 7 year long Marriage supper in Heaven between verse 7 and verse 13?


Those that were given fine linen,are returning to earth with Jesus.


These died during the tribulation, as they did not love their lives unto death.

They are returning to earth as the gathered ones at the resurrection of the dead and the rapture!



The Resurrection and Rapture occur as one event.

Study when the Resurrection of the dead in Christ takes place.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24


and again -

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52


and again -

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27


....from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
  • that represents all those who are Christ's Gathered together from heaven and earth!

and again -


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

...with a great sound of a trumpet.

  • there is the last Trumpet Paul teaches about!

He only returns once!

...so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB
 
One of the things that i'm unclear on, is, if the rapture is post trib...then, how does that work out with respect to the timing between, when Jesus shows up in the valley of Meggido (sp?) (Armageddon) and stops the battle (so to speak, lol) and then raptures the church out to go to the marriage supper of the Lamb...and then returns? Or He raptures the church out first, and leaves with the church ( for a quick snack lunch?) and then returns to the valley where the battle would be (if He didn't come and put an end to it) and then concludes it to enter into the millennial reign that is...)

Am I missing something there because it doesn't sound as if there'll be a lot of time for the marriage supper...and that doesn't really make sense to me. Forgive me brother, i hope that makes sense, it's pretty late but i wanted to ask this...

Is the marriage supper symbolic or a tangible set down dinner?
Jewish wedding celebrations lasted a week.. how are we measuring a week? 7 days 7 years ? if seven is the 'number' of completion is this wedding feast just a symbol of THEE COMPLETION

Is the battle a shoot'em up war or a battle in the spirit?
 
One of the things that i'm unclear on, is, if the rapture is post trib...then, how does that work out with respect to the timing between, when Jesus shows up in the valley of Meggido (sp?) (Armageddon) and stops the battle (so to speak, lol) and then raptures the church out to go to the marriage supper of the Lamb...and then returns? Or He raptures the church out first, and leaves with the church ( for a quick snack lunch?) and then returns to the valley where the battle would be (if He didn't come and put an end to it) and then concludes it to enter into the millennial reign that is...)

Am I missing something there because it doesn't sound as if there'll be a lot of time for the marriage supper...and that doesn't really make sense to me. Forgive me brother, i hope that makes sense, it's pretty late but i wanted to ask this...

reba asked is it a symbolic or tangible set down dinner?

I ask..
Is the Lord's Supper, communion, the symbolic or literal body and blood of Christ?

When Jesus gave this teaching many of His disciples left Him. They were thinking with literal, earthly, thoughts rather than spiritual.
 
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great." 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11-21


A war with real people dying.
 
Brother, you nor anyone else on this Forum or any other Forum has ever presented any scripture that shows the Resurrection of the dead in Christ to be before the tribulation.

Anyone that desires to seek the truth can study the scriptures concerning the resurrection of the dead in Christ and plainly see that event occurs at His Coming, after the wicked one is revealed, after the tribulation.

The Resurrection and rapture is one event, that occurs at the end of the age, on the last Day, when Jesus returns to Gather His people.


Every eye will see Him.


You are the blessed.


JLB


I disagree . Somewhere on this forum we have at least 3 pages going back and fort




Still
on the same scriptures you posted. Your still counting trumps when scripture only counted angels who sounded a trumpet. still confusing the trump of God saying come up hither with angels blowing trumpets.
Still confusing the dead in Christ are the first fruits and not an end time event.

It's the same long many page conversation we had before. Why go over it again?
 
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great." 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11-21


A war with real people dying.
Looking at the verses you highlighted do you believe the war is Jesus on a horse killing people with a sword in His mouth?
and dinner is cannibalism?
 
I disagree . Somewhere on this forum we have at least 3 pages going back and fort




Still
on the same scriptures you posted. Your still counting trumps when scripture only counted angels who sounded a trumpet. still confusing the trump of God saying come up hither with angels blowing trumpets.
Still confusing the dead in Christ are the first fruits and not an end time event.

It's the same long many page conversation we had before. Why go over it again?


Sorry Brother,

The last Trump is the LAST trump.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

This is the last Trump.


This is the trumpet associated with the Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed... 1 Corinthians 15:51

The Resurrection of the dead and the Rapture are one event and can not be separated.

The Resurrection of the dead takes place at the end of the age on the last Day, at His Coming!

The Rapture occurs a moment after the Resurrection, so that those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them...

One Event!

If you have scriptures that show the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, takes place BEFORE the Tribulation, then please do share them with us.


JLB
 
Sorry Brother,

The last Trump is the LAST trump.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

This is the last Trump.


This is the trumpet associated with the Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed... 1 Corinthians 15:51

The Resurrection of the dead and the Rapture are one event and can not be separated.

The Resurrection of the dead takes place at the end of the age on the last Day, at His Coming!

The Rapture occurs a moment after the Resurrection, so that those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them...

One Event!

If you have scriptures that show the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, takes place BEFORE the Tribulation, then please do share them with us.


JLB

Why are you counting trumpets? What scriptures tell you to do that? NONE DO!!!

Your dragging me back into this. AGAIN!!!

Trumpets are not to be counted. The last trump the trumpet will sound. On the last sound, when it stops, we get taken up and changed.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
(Rev 4:1)

A trumpet like sound........ COME UP!!!! God's trumpet.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
(Rev 10:7)

Notice the Angel was numbered, who just happened to have a sound like a trumpet? Seventh Angel, not seventh and last trumpet.

ONE ANGEL........ Just ONE.


And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(Mat 24:31)

This event more than one angle, not the lonely 7th angel, but another trumpet event. At the end after tribulation.
We don't count trumpets, they just start and stop events.



For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:16)

The LORD HIMSELF.................. Not an angel, but the Lord will descend from Heaven with the voice of an archangel with the trump of God. Not an angel but Himself calling us up personally, His church.


The angels were counted, not trumpets 1,2,3 and so on. saying the 7th angel's trumpet is the last trump is make believe. No scriptural basis for that.

And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
(Rev 8:10)

1 angel, 2 angel, 3 angel.......... How you count trumpets anywhere?

Once you get the trumpet issue settled, then we can cover your resurrection timing issues... AGAIN. sigh............

God calls up like a trumpet, Come up hither. The lord himself with a voice of an Arch-angle sounds the trumpet, the trump of God. He personally calls up his church, not the lonely 7th angel who just sounded to end tribulation. The Lord calls his own.
 
No there are 5 words :) and the bold ... and ya know what
TOS
1.3: .... If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public.

Some times we really try to head off some things we see before they develop.
 
I wonder what it would sound like if we could talk to each other? This site support tapatalk. Hard to type here on tablet.
 
reba asked is it a symbolic or tangible set down dinner?

I ask..
Is the Lord's Supper, communion, the symbolic or literal body and blood of Christ?

When Jesus gave this teaching many of His disciples left Him. They were thinking with literal, earthly, thoughts rather than spiritual.

I totally believe that it will be a tangible dinner. very much more so than that but a real let's eat dinner.
 
Looking at the verses you highlighted do you believe the war is Jesus on a horse killing people with a sword in His mouth?
and dinner is cannibalism?

I think that there is a little bit of symbolism going on there. We do know that the word of God is powerful. By it, the heavens and the earth were created...and many other things of course also. Depends on what He says and to whom.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
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