The MYTH of condemned men being the ELECT...

[Eventide]

I can do nothing to save myself i am a sinner.

good ol reba needs a Saviour.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


Wouldn't i be special if i could save myself? What man seeks God?

Reba,

This is the same ol strawman every time.. because nobody claims to be saving themselves.. I'm simply wondering why anyone would think that God choosing us is unconditional when the scriptures tell us exactly why He does choose us to salvation.. through sanctification and believing the truth.

The only reason that people say otherwise is because Calvinism says so..

 

[RoadDebris]

So then according to you, God does not choose us to salvation based upon believing the truth ?

He chooses based on his own desire to be glorified, our lack of merit notwithstanding. He gives us the faith through which we receive the gift of grace. He's the cause, not us.

 

[reba]

Over and over Even i have said it was my sinful condition that was unconditional to Him. I was not good enough, i did not need be in a repetitive condition, that is the unconditional
Definition of UNCONDITIONAL

1
: not conditional or limited : absolute, unqualified <unconditional surrender> <unconditional love>








Even You have labeled me a Calvinist I have never studied Calvin's works. Never sat under Calvinistic teaching.

 

[reba]

This is the same ol strawman every time.. because nobody claims to be saving themselves..

so then what is your complaint? I am not being flippant i truly don't see or understand what you are saying...

I'm simply wondering why anyone would think that God choosing us is unconditional when the scriptures tell us exactly why He does choose us to salvation..

the unconditional part is it does matter the degree of sin He save us. You could be the sweet little lady that would never say a naughty word that lady is a sinner and needs salvation. You could be the head of the Hells Angels gang that leader needs salvation their condition does not matter His love His salvation is unconditional.

through sanctification and believing the truth.

What/who brings us to Truth? and sanctification? I say that is the Holy Spirit

The only reason that people say otherwise is because Calvinism says so..

I have never quoted Calvin have never read his works my view comes from Scripture as does yours,

 

[RoadDebris]

Even You have labeled me a Calvinist I have never studied Calvin's works. Never sat under Calvinistic teaching.

It's easier to attack Calvin than it is to address the issues at hand (IMO).

 

[Eventide]

He chooses based on his own desire to be glorified, our lack of merit notwithstanding. He gives us the faith through which we receive the gift of grace. He's the cause, not us.

So His choice is not based upon believing the truth ?

 

[Eventide]

Even You have labeled me a Calvinist I have never studied Calvin's works. Never sat under Calvinistic teaching.

LOL.. yeah, Calvinism had nothing to do with you believing in unconditional election.. now that's funny..

 

[reba]

LOL.. yeah, Calvinism had nothing to do with you believing in unconditional election.. now that's funny..

You are right! Calvin had nothign to do with my belief.

Did God look at you and say "Even's condition is now OK, good enough, i will save Him."?

Or did He find you in sin and pull you from the pit

Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

 

[Eventide]

You are right! Calvin had nothign to do with my belief...

That is pretty funny Reba !

Did God look at you and say "Even's condition is now OK, good enough, i will save Him."?

Or did He find you in sin and pull you from the pit

Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

I have scriptural proof that God choose me to salvation based upon my believing the truth.. you don't have a single verse which teaches that God choose you without any conditions..

Here's the scripture if you're willing to accept the truth and simplicity of the word of God..

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

Here's another.. notice the sequence..

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise..

Now, where's your scriptural proof... oh right there is none..

Now I know that Calvinists typically mock other Christians who say that they believe the truth.. but who cares.. they'll have to answer to God for that nonsense.

 

[Eventide]

How about this one..

What must I do to be saved...

BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED..

WOW... there's three already... and there are many more.. none of this matters to those who have been taught that they were chosen unconditionally... not even the word of God can correct them.

 

[reba]

I have scriptural proof that God choose me to salvation based upon my believing the truth.. you don't have a single verse which teaches that God choose you without any conditions..


You see the word condition or unconditional in a different way then i do..
I see the word condition as my state of sin our state of sin we are not seeing the the word in the same way.
I was not good enough for Christ yet He saved me.
When did you become good enough for salvation?

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I am only saved by the Cross of Christ and what ever could i have done 'before the foundation of the world?

 

[Eventide]

You see the word condition or unconditional in a different way then i do.. I see the word condition as my state of sin our state of sin we are not seeing the the word in the same way.

We're ALL in that condition Reba.. every last one of us.. so there's no difference there either..

OK, so you've been shown thr truth of scripture in that God chose us to SALVATION through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of the TRUTH..

NOW, are you still going to insist that these conditions are not necessary for God to choose a person to salvation Reba..?

I was not good enough for Christ yet He saved me. When did you become good enough for salvation?

I wasn't Reba, this is simply your strawman that you bring up over and over and over again because you obviously have nothing else to say on the matter, so you must accuse others of being good enough..

 

[reba]

I was taught and did teach what you believe for about 35 years. Then i got a computer and some bible soft ware. Did some searches and found out lots of stuff/ sayings where not scriptural.

You scoff at me about Clavin . I tell you the truth about what i believe or have learned etc. and you lol as if i am lying. I am sorry for that there is no way to convince some one who will not hear. I am 64 raised in Assemblies of God church, I did not know what the word calvinist meant until i was kicked out of a 'chat" for posting scripture. Pearl kicked me out... after the time elapsed i asked why .. Pearl said YOU are one of Those we did the battle thing you know what i mean no i dont finely she said CLAVINIST in all caps.... so i looked calvinist up...

Lol all you wish I will remain thankful for the Salvation i received despite my condition. As you will remain pleased you for your salvation!

 

[reba]

I wasn't Reba, this is simply your strawman that you bring up over and over and over again because you obviously have nothing else to say on the matter, so you must accuse others of being good enough..

So you were saved in spite of your condition.

Not as a strawman but because i am not good with words. I dont know how to make the connection.

 

[Eventide]

I was taught and did teach what you believe for about 35 years. Then i got a computer and some bible soft ware. Did some searches and found out lots of stuff/ sayings where not scriptural.

You scoff at me about Clavin . I tell you the truth about what i believe or have learned etc. and you lol as if i am lying. I am sorry for that there is no way to convince some one who will not hear. I am 64 raised in Assemblies of God church, I did not know what the word calvinist meant until i was kicked out of a 'chat" for posting scripture. Pearl kicked me out... after the time elapsed i asked why .. Pearl said YOU are one of Those we did the battle thing you know what i mean no i dont finely she said CLAVINIST in all caps.... so i looked calvinist up...

Lol all you wish I will remain thankful for the Salvation i received despite my condition. As you will remain pleased you for your salvation!

See, just as mentioned.. even the word of God cannot correct the error of unconditional election.. and for what.. because people can't admit that they're wrong..

Not a single verse of scripture from you that supports your belief that God choose you to salvation based upon absolutely nothing..

 

[Eventide]

Not as a strawman but because i am not good with words. I dont know how to make the connection.

I know, you'll keep erecting the same strawman and accuse other Christians of being 'good enough' for salvation.. it simply shows me that this is all you have.. nothing.

 

[Eventide]

So you were saved in spite of your condition.

Every person who has been saved has been saved by believing the truth.. even Abraham.. he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness..

Although the obvious exception to the word of God is the Calvinists.. they were chosen to salvation based upon absolutely nothing.. that's what unconditional means.. no conditions.

 

[reba]

Again we just dont see the same words on the page.

that's what unconditional means.. no conditions.

I did nothing to merit His grace

 

[Eventide]

Again we just dont see the same words on the page.

Obviously.. because when the word of God plainly says that He chose us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and believing the truth... OR what must I do to be saved... you believe that this means unconditional.. ie, based upon nothing at all.

 

[Eventide]

Again we just dont see the same words on the page.




I did nothing to merit His grace

Me neither... so what's your point.. are you going to mock me now because I believed the truth and you can't..