Total depravity?

[Dorothy Mae]

I guess it's rare that we should lock doors ,pack heat,worry as I have of being robbed,stabbed.

Often it's not the strangers ,but your own family or friends who do you in.my system raped by her bf,family trusted friend .

The military and any cop will say trust no one .

You’d be surprised to know that when I was growing up, people didn’t lock their doors. I’ve had friends from elsewhere in the US tell me this too. So it’s very clear that not all people everywhere are cursing, lying murderers. They aren’t all depraved either. The theology fails if one tests its assumptions in real life.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

dorthym


Not only jews, but all mankind, and thats what Paul means as well

Ps 14

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.

The children of men encompasses all people not just jews !

I partly answered this but didn’t address the scriptures. The Hebrews were very fond of hyperbole. In the NT it says “the whole world is going after him (Jesus.)” Was every man, woman and child in all the earth doing that? Jesus said people know how to give GOOD gifts to their children. The widow who put in 2 mites was praised by Jesus. The faith of the Centurion was so great Jesus marveled. Jesus said giving a cup of cold water is good. Enoch walked with God and didn’t die, he was so good. Men will be judged by their deeds, GOOD or bad, the Bible says. So there you are….the Bible insisting SOME men did good some times.

How do we reconcile this? By seeing this differently than as if it is a literal description of every deed everyone ever did.

 

[jasonc]

You’d be surprised to know that when I was growing up, people didn’t lock their doors. I’ve had friends from elsewhere in the US tell me this too. So it’s very clear that not all people everywhere are cursing, lying murderers. They aren’t all depraved either. The theology fails if one tests its assumptions in real life.

Im well aware of history .

I often photo ot locally as parts of it predate the country I live in.

But.
Nothing under the sun is new.

Genocide. To old military base relics we're used for Indian removal .the local tribe of which my wife descends was not defeated but simply left alone .three wars to remove them and several wars paid bounties on the indians children .this is part of the trail of tears.

Then there's the Spanish stories of what they did .the lynching era of jim crow and slavery accounts .of the north of me .

I add also the accounts of the bootlegging .al Capone stayed in a house not far from me.the Ashley gang and their capture and murder by cops .

The ok corral was mild compared to the three month siege,family feud near tallahassee.

Then the media itself .siding with les then savory characters ,the fact that Cuba history and how we limit their freedom long before Castro deserved a thread. In short ,we can decide what type of govt they have .

 

[jasonc]

I guess that old jw I was ,I didn't curse,didn't steal ,and the sin they define is the same doesn't need Jesus.

See where that Goes?

 

[jasonc]

And also local whore houses.gambling.the word juke joint ,joog joint is a guchi word for a bar for finding that in one place.

 

[brightfame52]

crossnote

You keep bringing 'Calvinism' into the discussion, all I am doing is referring to Scripture. I don't believe I have defended Calvinism by name. You seem to have an anti-Calvinist bent.

Thats how people justify rejecting what scripture says, just brush it off as calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

But Paul wrote particularly about the Jews in those chapters. He said so.

Paul referred to the Psalms for a statement that shows the depravity of men, then he applied it to his letter to the Romans, its confirming the depravity of men, all men, doesnt matter if its a jew, gentile, black person, white person. God saw the same in all men, depravity. None seeks after God, Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[brightfame52]

I partly answered this but didn’t address the scriptures. The Hebrews were very fond of hyperbole. In the NT it says “the whole world is going after him (Jesus.)” Was every man, woman and child in all the earth doing that? Jesus said people know how to give GOOD gifts to their children. The widow who put in 2 mites was praised by Jesus. The faith of the Centurion was so great Jesus marveled. Jesus said giving a cup of cold water is good. Enoch walked with God and didn’t die, he was so good. Men will be judged by their deeds, GOOD or bad, the Bible says. So there you are….the Bible insisting SOME men did good some times.

How do we reconcile this? By seeing this differently than as if it is a literal description of every deed everyone ever did.

Dont limit the children of men to just one ethnicity, the children of men is composed of different races of people. Ps 14:2-3

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Im well aware of history .

I often photo ot locally as parts of it predate the country I live in.

But.
Nothing under the sun is new.

Genocide. To old military base relics we're used for Indian removal .the local tribe of which my wife descends was not defeated but simply left alone .three wars to remove them and several wars paid bounties on the indians children .this is part of the trail of tears.

Then there's the Spanish stories of what they did .the lynching era of jim crow and slavery accounts .of the north of me .

I add also the accounts of the bootlegging .al Capone stayed in a house not far from me.the Ashley gang and their capture and murder by cops .

The ok corral was mild compared to the three month siege,family feud near tallahassee.

Then the media itself .siding with les then savory characters ,the fact that Cuba history and how we limit their freedom long before Castro deserved a thread. In short ,we can decide what type of govt they have .

There are evil people. There were evil people. But this doesn’t describe all people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

crossnote



Thats how people justify rejecting what scripture says, just brush it off as calvinism.

Actually it is calvinism. Again, this IS the Calvinism area and the OP IS something Calvinists say. It’s a pity you won’t admit this obvious fact.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dont limit the children of men to just one ethnicity, the children of men is composed of different races of people. Ps 14:2-3

Do you need the Bible to tell you that there is more than your race? Is your thinking so cut off from reality that you only know there is more than YOUR race because the Bible tells you this??? That’s a new one, I admit.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

At that point in time. And then many sought the Lord at other points in time. The Bible tells us many sought the Lord.

 

[jasonc]

There are evil people. There were evil people. But this doesn’t describe all people.

All are evil.

If they aren't ,then I can say .I don't need Jesus.

For there is none righteous.no not one .a good sinless man exists right now.?

He doesn't need to repent .he can be a Buddhists ,a jw ,a Mormon ,an atheist.

Look I can point out in America that you can be pro life and pro God and the locals will hate you.elders have said the clinics aren't in some back alley but next door to churches .I personally went to the closest one.three churches near it!and a magnet school.

If what you say is true kindly explain. Why most of the internet is porn websites?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Paul referred to the Psalms for a statement that shows the depravity of men, then he applied it to his letter to the Romans, its confirming the depravity of men, all men, doesnt matter if its a jew, gentile, black person, white person. God saw the same in all men, depravity. None seeks after God, Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Paul had never heard of that doctrine. It hadn’t been yet invented.

 

[brightfame52]

There are evil people. There were evil people. But this doesn’t describe all people.

All people are evil naturally. Jesus even speaking to His disciples said Matt 7:11

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

 

[brightfame52]

Actually it is calvinism. Again, this IS the Calvinism area and the OP IS something Calvinists say. It’s a pity you won’t admit this obvious fact.

Actually its scripture being blown off and justifying that blowing off by calling it calvinism. Its really scoffing the Truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Do you need the Bible to tell you that there is more than your race? Is your thinking so cut off from reality that you only know there is more than YOUR race because the Bible tells you this??? That’s a new one, I admit.

At that point in time. And then many sought the Lord at other points in time. The Bible tells us many sought the Lord.

I have told you multiple of times, Rom 3 :11 is speaking about man by nature, in a unregenerate , spiritually dead condition. Now once God quickens a person and gives them Spiritual life, they will seek God, the True God. But again no man naturally seeks the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul had never heard of that doctrine. It hadn’t been yet invented.

Paul wrote Rom 3:11 so how could he never heard of it ? Duh Also Paul had read the OT scripture

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Paul wrote Rom 3:11 so how could he never heard of it ? Duh Also Paul had read the OT scripture

It’s not there. Paul didn’t write it either. I seriously doubt any calvinist tells an atheist that they are totally depraved when preaching the gospel. Neither Jesus or Peter nor Paul ever preached anything close to this depraved doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

It’s not there. Paul didn’t write it either. I seriously doubt any calvinist tells an atheist that they are totally depraved when preaching the gospel. Neither Jesus or Peter nor Paul ever preached anything close to this depraved doctrine.

So now you denying Paul wrote Rom 3 ! And he borrowed from the OT.

 

[Edward]

I have told you multiple of times, Rom 3 :11 is speaking about man by nature, in a unregenerate , spiritually dead condition. Now once God quickens a person and gives them Spiritual life, they will seek God, the True God. But again no man naturally seeks the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You are almost right. You can't separate the spiritual and the natural. And God gave to each the measure of faith therefore we all have the seed of God within us.

We may be born with the Adamic nature but God did not take back his measure of faith or the seed which is planted in all men that says, God is real. God save me. It's just that without promptings of the Holy Spirit man would never seek God on his own unless it is the direst of circumstances.